Interview Transcript - Maxwell 2025.07.25 (Redacted).pdf

Page 216
United States Department of Justice
INTERVIEW OF:  GHISLAINE MAXWELL
DATE:  July 25, 2025
APPEARANCES:
For the United States:
Todd Blanche, Deputy Attorney General
Diego Pestana, Acting Associate Deputy
Attorney General
Spencer Horn, FBI Special Agent
Mark Beard, Deputy U.S. Marshal
For Ghislaine Maxwell:
David Markus
Leah Saffian
Melissa Madrigal

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                 I N T E R V I E W
2
                        ***
3
           SPENCER HORN:  Good morning.  It is
4
Friday, July 25th, the time is 9:24 a.m.  My name is
5
Spencer R. Horn.  I'm the Assistant Special Agent in
6
Charge of FBI New York.  And we are here for a
7
recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
9
How are you?
10
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Good morning.
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  Good.  So the proffer
12
agreement we signed yesterday, I just -- there's a
13
place on it for us to all kind of initial.  It's
14
exactly the same document and you'll see your
15
signature.  If you can just initial right to the left
16
of -- right here.
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Here?
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  Right there.
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Oh, it's okay.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  And then Mr. Markus will --
21
           DAVID MARKUS:  Yes.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- initial as well.  Thank
23
you.
24
           And just to kind of -- before we get
25
going, I'll just say that exactly the same folks that

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were here when we met yesterday are here today.  So
2
there's no -- I'm not going to do formal
3
introductions, because it's exactly the same group of
4
folks.
5
           So we're continuing, Ms. Maxwell, our
6
discussion of yesterday.  And the same -- the same
7
kind of rules apply.  If you -- we'll take breaks, if
8
you need to talk to Mr. Markus or your lawyers, no --
9
absolutely no problem.  Just let me know.  I'll try
10
to ask my questions in a coherent manner, but if
11
there's anything that I say that's confusing,
12
definitely interrupt me.
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I will.  Thank you.
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  So I think the easiest
15
thing to start with is, is there anything that we
16
talked about yesterday that -- we're going to go
17
through some more names.  I think that we -- that's
18
one of the places that we -- that we interrupted,
19
just because there's a lot of names.
20
           But aside from additional names, is there
21
anything that you wanted to kind of follow up on that
22
we talked about yesterday or anything that you
23
thought maybe you remember more of or not?
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Some more names did
25
come to me in the night, and I did have some

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additional memories just for clarity.  I believe I
2
said that I couldn't think of anybody who I may have
3
asked from Mar-a-Lago, but then I realized that I
4
was -- the allegation at least is that I met 
5
in Mar-a-Lago and so I felt that I needed to address
6
that.  And I didn't want to leave that hanging
7
because that seems weird under the circumstances.
8
           And also -- but I couldn't remember anyone
9
and -- maybe, you know, it's a long period of time.
10
So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I
11
just don't -- I don't remember anybody that I would
12
have.  But it's not impossible that I might have
13
asked someone from there.
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  I don't -- I don't know
15
exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think
16
what you said yesterday is different than what you
17
just said.  So, yes.  There's --
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.  I just wanted
19
to be -- I just didn't want to feel that I had said
20
no to something and that it -- and --
21
           TODD BLANCHE:  
 definitely had
22
has said that she was working at Mar-a-Lago and that
23
you received a treatment of her -- from her at some
24
point, and that you recruited her to meet
25
Mr. Epstein.
DOJ REDACTION
DOJ REDACTION

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           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Right.
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you know, affirmatively,
3
whether that's true or false, or do you just not have
4
a memory either way?
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I really don't believe
6
it's true.  But I know that I did go to spas and if I
7
met someone, I did ask if they're (indiscernible) --
8
so I don't -- in the realms of possibility, it could
9
have, but I have no memory of it.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
11
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And I don't believe
12
that that it's how it went down, but I don't want
13
to --
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  So I want to talk
15
about -- we talked a little bit yesterday about the
16
financial part of your relationship with Mr. Epstein,
17
kind of being on payroll, for lack of a better word,
18
for many, many years, starting around $25,000 and
19
ending up at around $250,000 per year.
20
           There's -- as you know, from your trial,
21
there's banking information that shows a ton of money
22
being sent to you from Mr. Epstein over the years.
23
           And I think totaling something like
24
$30 million, something like this.  What's -- what's
25
the -- why was that money sent to you?  Like, what

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was that for?
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Well, first of all, I
3
don't -- I dispute the characterization that the
4
money was sent to me.
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  So tell me what -- I
6
am stuck with the witnesses at trial and what was
7
said at trial on that issue.  So what -- what -- what
8
is the -- what do you dispute about that?
9
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Well, I believe -- I
10
don't have full recollection.  I'm not even sure I
11
ever saw what they accused me of, but my belief is
12
that that money also contained money that was for a
13
helicopter, for instance, that I never owned and I --
14
was never mine.  And --
15
           DAVID MARKUS:  In other words, money was
16
sent to you that you then used to purchase things
17
or...
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Well, I'm not even
19
sure that I purchased it.  So the accounts -- those
20
accounts would be controlled by his accountants.
21
And --
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  Even accounts in your name,
23
you're saying, or one of your entities?
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Well, I'm not even
25
sure I knew of all the entities.  I'm not -- I

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don't -- it -- maybe I did, contemporaneously, but I
2
simply wouldn't know today.  So if there was an
3
entity, let's say account X, if I really set that up
4
myself or whether they said, we're doing this and the
5
money's coming or whatever.  But in no substantive
6
way -- I can't think of the right word.
7
           DAVID MARKUS:  Did you have control
8
over --
9
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I had no control, is
10
what I'm saying.
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  So when -- when the
12
government -- when there was testimony or the
13
government admitted evidence that showed, for
14
example, $5 million in 2002 coming from Epstein to
15
you, okay, what you're saying is that that may --
16
that happened, but that the you there, wasn't money
17
that -- he wasn't giving you money.
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I'm not going to say
19
that for everything, because maybe there were
20
accounts that money was sent to me.  But I can say
21
that I know -- like the helicopter, I can
22
definitively say.  I'd have to look at all of them to
23
be accurate for you.
24
           But to explain how or why I could be
25
receiving monies, and I certainly did.  So I'm not

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disputing all of it.
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  But when you said -- let's
3
go back and look.  Why would -- why did money have to
4
go into your accounts or account that was controlled
5
by others, but in your name to, like, purchase a
6
helicopter?
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Oh, that's a very good
8
question.  I don't -- I'm not sure I know the answer
9
to that.  I don't.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  So let me ask this maybe a
11
different way that gets to the issue, right?  So the
12
accusation by the government, based upon the evidence
13
they collected, is that Epstein paid you millions and
14
millions of dollars over the years.
15
           And the reason why he paid you that is
16
because you were performing an extraordinary service
17
for him by recruiting young women, many of whom were
18
underage to -- so that he could sexually abuse them.
19
Okay.  That's their -- that's their allegation.
20
Okay.
21
           From what you said yesterday and from what
22
I've reviewed about you and Mr. Epstein, he paid for
23
a lot in your life.
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Absolutely.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  Your flights, where you

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stayed with him.  I mean, he didn't expect you to
2
reimburse him along the way for food and, you know,
3
so he took care of you for many years.
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  That is true.
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  On top of that, he actually
6
paid you a salary as we talked about $25,000 to
7
$250,000.  What else did he give you?  Or what
8
purchase -- like, was there a time when he gave you a
9
million dollars or $500,000 as a bonus?  Or what --
10
what financial benefit did you receive from him,
11
besides what we've already talked about.  We don't
12
have to talk about what, you know, so --
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I got it.  I got it.
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So my goal, always,
16
was to become independent, independently, financially
17
secure and work for myself.  I've never been one to
18
not work.  And in that regard, over the course of my
19
friendship and my working relationship with Epstein,
20
I expressed to him my desire to be independent of him
21
everywhere, just to be freestanding.
22
           And the -- in -- with that in mind, I
23
wanted to have my own businesses or my own money
24
coming in independent and separate from any salary
25
that I received from him.

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           And I needed that for my self-esteem.
2
I've never been -- I mean, obviously salary and it
3
was a very generous one.  Please, I'm not belittling
4
the sum of money, because it's huge, but I was
5
brought up to work and I was brought up to be my own,
6
you know.
7
           The first time -- so I would either
8
propose businesses to him or he would actually
9
suggest why didn't I do something in the first deal
10
that we did, or the first business that we had or I
11
had and that he financed for me.
12
           So he gave -- he loaned me all the money
13
to enable me to do this and then I reaped the
14
profits, which I don't remember now, because we
15
varied over the deals that we did, that I would give
16
him 50 percent or 25.
17
           It was sort of -- it was random.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  So --
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And I can tell you
20
what it is, so we can compare it.
21
          TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.  Go ahead.
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So it was in Palm
23
Beach actually, and it was in real estate.  And they
24
sold what was the grounds originally of an estate
25
called the Phipps Estate.  And then they converted

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the land that came with that estate into houses.  And
2
I did, I think, two or maybe -- I can't remember now,
3
but certainly one and maybe two, possibly three.  I
4
don't think so.  I think two, that then were flipped
5
and there was a profit.
6
           So that would be an example of that.  But
7
I didn't have the money, so he lent me the funds to
8
do that business transaction and then I reaped the
9
profits.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  And so -- but when --
11
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And that's millions of
12
dollars.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- when a financial
14
investigator like, the FBI looks at accounts, they
15
don't know kind of the conversations you're having.
16
They just see the money.
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Right.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  So in those cases, when
19
that happened, when he would -- when he financed that
20
with you, would he send money to you?  So does that
21
explain some of the money?  Like, I guess --
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I believe -- I think
23
it does.  I think, for instance, there were two
24
Gullwing Mercedes that they did with Mercedes and
25
Aston Martin.  You can look it up, I think, if I'm

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right.  That had the doors that would come up like
2
this --
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  There were only a very
5
limited number that were made.  So I knew that we
6
could get those and flip them right within 24 hours,
7
for example.
8
           Also my -- here's another example of
9
something that you guys wouldn't have known about is
10
I became a banker.  I got my Series 63, Series 67
11
banking license and became a broker for like a new
12
(inaudible).  And then -- because I was day trading.
13
Everything I had I day traded with -- through an
14
account.
15
           And I think I was lucky more than smart,
16
but I made quite a lot of money doing that.  And so
17
--
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  When was that?  Like what
19
-- approximate time --
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Again, that's in the
21
'90s again.  I don't -- oh, wait.  I think -- well,
22
you can find it, because it'll be my banking license,
23
right?  That'll be something that you can look up,
24
probably.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.

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           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So what whatever that
2
is -- and I just don't remember when that is.  I'm
3
sorry.
4
         TODD BLANCHE:  So -- okay.  So --
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And so for an example,
6
I was -- I was doing really, really, really well.
7
And so he was like, how do you do that?  Well, how
8
are you -- what are you -- why are you investing in,
9
I don't know, Apple when nobody liked Apple.  This
10
is, you know, before Apple or Microsoft.  I didn't
11
know Bill Gates, so this is not related to him.
12
           But my family --
13
           DAVID MARKUS:  Don't charge her with
14
insider trading.
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Please -- no.  I'm not
16
trying to suggest that.  Oh, goodness.  Please, no.
17
I had no --
18
           DAVID MARKUS:  It was just a joke.
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  It was a joke.
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yeah.  No.  All right.
22
           But my -- going back to my family, my dad
23
had given me an account when I was 12 and I had
24
always an interest in business and finance, not --
25
not very sophisticated.  I'm not suggesting that.

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           And so I like to trade and so I did and I
2
did well.  And so then I would tell him what I was
3
doing.  Now, whether he did or he didn't, he told me
4
he matched me in some other accounts that he had.
5
Because he did a lot of -- he -- my observation, to
6
go back to what he did, I observed him personally and
7
have recollection -- personal recollection of him
8
trading this money, lots.  Tens of millions, hundreds
9
of millions of dollars.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  That was -- that he was
11
trading for other people --
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- or that was his own
14
money?
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I want also to clarify
16
something for you or clarify or underline.  Wexner
17
was, in my opinion, his closest friend in this time
18
period from when I met him in '91, right, all the way
19
until-- well, 'til, I don't know.
20
           Because I wasn't that friendly with --
21
well, I did travel with Mr. Wexner, but Epstein told
22
me that Wexner didn't want to be seen too much with
23
me, because of my family problems.  You know, whether
24
that was --
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  You mean the problems that

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your father's company had with --
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- embezzlement or
4
allegations of --
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.  Yes.  That's
6
what I'm talking about.
7
           And now, actually today -- not
8
contemporaneously, but today I don't believe that
9
that's even true.  I think it was used as a means to
10
not have me travel with him to Ohio or whatever.  It
11
was just a way to park me.
12
           And I believe that now, because within the
13
discovery there was a lot of -- well, not a lot, but
14
there was some indications that he would actively
15
tell other people to lie to me or conceal things from
16
me, and that he never loved me and I wasn't his type.
17
That's in the discovery somewhere.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  So -- okay.  So the
19
government had evidence that, even as late as 2007,
20
he paid you a lot of money.
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  What was that?  What
22
was the money?
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  Like several -- millions of
24
millions of dollars in 2007.  $7.4 million, I think.
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  What was that for?

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Was it -- was that the helicopter?
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  That was -- that's my
3
question for you.
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Oh, sorry.
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  I don't know.
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.  Sorry.
7
           TODD BLANCHE:  So in 2007 --
8
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I think that was
9
probably the helicopter.  That could have been --
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  That was what?
11
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  That could have been
12
the helicopter, the Sikorsky.  Those big chunks like
13
that, I don't -- I didn't -- I don't personally have
14
any memory of receiving a check from him for
15
$7 million.  I just -- I just don't.  But I would
16
have to -- I know I -- so the answer to your
17
question, to be precise --
18
           DAVID MARKUS:  You would remember if it
19
went into your pocket --
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I would remember if it
21
went -- I would -- he never paid me to -- for
22
services that you just described, $7 million, to --
23
for any nefarious reason.
24
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.  I think I understand
25
what you've said about being on the payroll and

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helping -- him helping you with businesses, and
2
giving you a lot of life things along the way.  You
3
travel with him, you ate with him.  He's, you know,
4
but there is the -- these massive amounts of money,
5
one-time payments that I --
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So I don't -- you'd
7
have to trace that, right?  So I don't believe that
8
came into my account or I had any control.  I have no
9
memory of that.  I have no -- no --
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  Well, but if there's
11
records that show it coming into your account, it
12
sounds like what you're saying is that not -- putting
13
aside your -- you have no memory of that money being
14
yours.
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
16
           TODD BLANCHE:  Like you didn't -- that
17
money is not somewhere --
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.  I wouldn't be
19
like, oh, yippee, let me go.  I got $7 million.  I'm
20
going to go buy myself a yacht.  No.  Or I don't
21
know, something else or move it to some other -- no.
22
           I don't think -- I don't think, if you
23
look -- you'll have to check, obviously you will.  I
24
don't think you'll find that money moving in any --
25
to any account, either of mine or it shouldn't show,

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I don't believe anyway.  As far as I recollect, it
2
wouldn't show me spending it.
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  Right.
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Does that make sense?
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  Yeah, that makes
6
sense.  I mean, I think if -- I don't think there's
7
any dispute by anybody, even your lawyers at trial,
8
that -- that that the money went in.
9
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Oh, $7 million in
10
when, what year?
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  Well, there's several
12
years; in 2007.
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And?
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  2002, there was $5 million
15
that you were paid in 2002.
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Oh, well, I'd have
17
to -- I don't -- I don't remember.  But -- okay.  So
18
there's -- there would be another large sum, but it
19
wouldn't have come from him later.  But it had
20
nothing to do --
21
           TODD BLANCHE:  The biggest one was in
22
1999.  There's over $18 million.  $18.3 million.
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't know what that
24
is.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  So what -- but you --

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you're -- but what you're saying, it sounds like, and
2
if you don't know, we're going to -- we can move on.
3
           But when we're talking about $18.3 million
4
in '99, $5 million in -- three years later in 2002,
5
$7.4 million in 2007.  That -- those -- that money
6
adds up to around $30 million.
7
           You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
8
Meaning, that's not money you received for your
9
benefit, even if it was put into your accounts.
10
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't believe any of
11
that was my money.  Now, I do -- I just -- like I
12
said, we did do these things --
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yes.  I understand that.
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  - - with the cars.
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  I understand that.
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And as --
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  But --
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't know if any of
19
that money, some of it -- if it moves, some of that
20
may have come from the car or a house that was sold
21
that I had an interest in with him.  That's possible.
22
But I don't think this money is mine.
23
           LEAH SAFFIAN:  But also, the record should
24
reflect, too, that there were times Ghislaine's name
25
was used, for example, Air Ghislaine.  Her name was

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in the name of the entity.  It had nothing to do with
2
her.  And if you pull signatures --
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.
4
           LEAH SAFFIAN:  -- there's no evidence for
5
that.
6
           TODD BLANCHE:  No.  My -- what I'm trying
7
to just make sure I -- that I understand, is that the
8
idea that you were paid $30 million between '99 and
9
2007, in order to -- by Mr. Epstein to reward you for
10
recruiting young women.  That is in your -- you're
11
saying that is categorically, completely false?
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  That is categorically
13
false, correct.
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  So I want to just --
15
we went through several individuals yesterday and I
16
want to go through just a couple of more names and
17
ask if you -- if you know them.  And if you do know
18
them, how you know them.
19
           Do you know Elon Musk?
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I do.
21
           TODD BLANCHE:  And how did you meet
22
Mr. Musk?
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I met him in -- I
24
don't remember the year, but it's going to be in
25
2010, '11, something like that, I think, if my memory

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serves.
2
           And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
3
co-founder of Google.  And Sergey had arranged for --
4
it was for his birthday.
5
           And we were -- or a bunch of us, I don't
6
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
7
           Maybe -- I don't know.  If I say 40, I
8
could be wrong.  If it was 30 or 50, I don't
9
remember.  I'm sorry.
10
           Went to another friend's island.  Somebody
11
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and -- not with
12
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
13
birthday.  And we were there together for, I want to
14
say, three or four days, something like that in my
15
memory.  And Mr. Musk was present for that.
16
           TODD BLANCHE:  And that was the first time
17
you met him, as far as you know?
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  As far as I remember,
19
yes.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did you meet -- did you
21
know his brother, Mr. Musk's brother?
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't know if I've
23
ever met him.  I know that he has a brother and I
24
don't think I met him.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  Aside from that time in --

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1
around 2010, on the island in the Caribbean for a
2
couple days, did you -- have you seen -- do you know
3
Mr. Musk beyond that time?
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  We met at -- I was at
5
the Oscars and we met at the Oscars.
6
           TODD BLANCHE:  What year was that, earlier
7
or later?
8
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  It was post that
9
event, I believe.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  And do you know whether
11
Mr. Epstein knew Mr. Musk?
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I believe they did.
13
And the only reason I say that is not from my memory,
14
but because I saw -- I think I saw -- my memory is
15
that in discovery, they were communicating on email.
16
           TODD BLANCHE:  So you have no personal
17
knowledge of that?
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I have no --
19
           TODD BLANCHE:  It's just what you've --
20
what you've seen from the press or from discovery?
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And I believe his
22
brother as well, actually.
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  Excuse me?
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Mr. Musk's brother as
25
well.  But I don't -- my -- like I said, my memory is

Page 238
1
not -- it's not as good as I would like it to be.
2
And I just want to say that.
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you -- you mentioned, I
4
think, yesterday in passing -- well, not in passing,
5
but as part of another answer, Andrew Cuomo.
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
7
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did you know Mr. Cuomo?
8
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Well, only because he
9
was married to Kerry.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yes.  Okay.
11
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And I think I knew his
12
brother as well.  What's -- he has a brother, right?
13
He's on TV.  What's his name?
14
           LEAH SAFFIAN:  Chris.
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Right.  Christopher.
16
           LEAH SAFFIAN:  Christopher Cuomo.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.  Chris.
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Chris.
19
           TODD BLANCHE:  You mean the TV -- the
20
former TV anchor or the TV anchor, Chris Cuomo?
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So -- but I would say
24
just socially, not -- I'm not close friends or
25
anything, but because we -- I was friends with Kerry

Page 239
1
and I met him a few times and I certainly met his
2
brother as well a few times.
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  And the same questions that
4
I asked about Mr. Musk, do you know whether
5
Mr. Epstein knew Andrew Cuomo or Chris Cuomo or
6
Ms. Kennedy, your friend?
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't think so.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  And so you never -- you
9
don't recall any of those three individuals, like,
10
flying on Mr. Epstein's plane --
11
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
12
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- or visiting him in
13
Palm Beach or at the island?
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  I think you mentioned
16
former Secretary of State John Kerry yesterday.  But
17
if not, do you know Mr. Kerry or no?
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I have met him, but I
19
don't know if Mr. Epstein ever met him.  I met him
20
only -- well, really I can't even probably
21
characterize that as a meeting, but I was very, very
22
involved in the Ocean at Work, through the -- you
23
asked me yesterday about TerraMar.
24
           And if I recall right, I met Mr. -- the
25
Secretary that way through the Ocean, but he wouldn't

Page 240
1
know who I am, I doubt.  I don't think.
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you know whether --
3
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  And does -- is that through
6
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  My life.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you know whether
9
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
10
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't believe so.
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  And so for the folks we
12
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
13
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did -- you don't know whether
14
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
15
have no recollection of them flying on his planes--
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Oh God, no.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Oh.  But Bobby Kennedy
19
knew him.  Bobby, the health --
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  Sorry.  Say that again
21
about Bobby Kennedy.
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Bobby knew
23
Mr. Epstein.
24
           TODD BLANCHE:  How do you know that?
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Because we went on a

Page 241
1
trip together.  Was -- we went to -- dinosaur bone
2
hunting in the Dakotas.
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  When was that, you know,
4
approximately?  I'm not looking for an exact date,
5
but when was that?
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  That was early -- that
7
was in the early -- well, let me back up.  I knew
8
Bobby's wife, Mary, pretty well, actually.  And
9
before he met her.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  And just to help us, I know
11
we're talking about a wide span of time, but what are
12
you -- when are you talking about that you knew
13
Mr. Kennedy's wife before they were married.
14
           So when are talking about the --
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I -- in 19 -- all
16
right.  I guess, let's get my head straight.  In --
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  Well, would this have been
18
before you met Mr. Epstein --
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- or after?  Okay.  So --
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I met him before I
22
met.
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  So we're talking about the
24
1980s.
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Oh, yes.  Yes.  Thank

Page 242
1
you.
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.  The '80s.
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  So we're talking
5
about the 1980s.  And then --
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  The -- I was the -- I
7
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had --
8
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
9
all very good friends.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  And then Mr. Epstein -- did
11
Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you?
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't -- I don't
13
think so, because Mr. Epstein, surprisingly, everyone
14
says everything happened through me.  That's just not
15
true.  I mean, I think yesterday I explained that he
16
had friends from London, and those are very -- they
17
were what the people would call "fancy."
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  They were fancy
20
people.  And -- but he had the same types of
21
relationships before I met him in America.  So when I
22
met him, he was already, you know, Wexner and he had
23
Henry and he had -- he was --I don't know if then he
24
was at the -- in the Council of Foreign Relations,
25
but he was friends with Ace and, you know, like he

Page 243
1
was -- he was well established.
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  He didn't need me.
4
And he was, you know, his -- Eva was, you know, major
5
model.  So he had all these modeling connections and
6
friends in that business, long before I met him.
7
           TODD BLANCHE:  And so the trip that you
8
went on with Mr. Epstein and Bobby Kennedy, was that
9
in the '90s and 2000s when --
10
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I think it was in
11
the -- it would've been in the -- I want to say '93,
12
'94.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  So a very long time
14
ago.
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  A very, very long time
16
ago.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  A few years into the --
18
your relationship -- a few years into the time that
19
you knew Mr. Epstein?
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.  I mean, I don't
21
want to hold myself to the dates because I really --
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  No, no.  I'm not holding
23
you to dates.  I think --
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Because I really don't
25
--

Page 244
1
           TODD BLANCHE:  I've said that a lot,
2
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
3
'90s and even the 2000s.
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And I just want you to
5
know, I haven't had any -- I don't have anything to
6
review, so I haven't had any ability to -- the short
7
of my legal material, obviously, which you can -- you
8
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
9
short of that, I have nothing with which to
10
refresh -- or very limited stuff, I should say, I
11
don't want to say nothing -- to refresh my mind.
12
           TODD BLANCHE:  I understand that.  Do you
13
have any recollection of Mr. Kennedy -- of there
14
being anything inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy and
15
masseuses or young women on the trip you just talked
16
about?
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I never saw anything
18
inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy.
19
           TODD BLANCHE:  And do you know whether he
20
ever got a massage from one of the masseuses?  Do you
21
know either way?
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I do not.
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  But not something you
24
remember?
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I mean, absolutely

Page 245
1
not.
2
           I mean, he -- well, I mean, yesterday, if
3
I didn't make it clear, I will reiterate it.  I
4
never, ever saw any man doing something inappropriate
5
with a woman of any age.  I never saw inappropriate
6
habits.
7
           Now, I'm not -- I'm not going to say hands
8
or -- I mean, that to me is not inappropriate.  Now,
9
somebody's inappropriate and mine may be different,
10
but --
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yep.
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- we're not talking
13
about anything that's -- resembles the accusations
14
that we've discussed here.  So that would be an -- a
15
flat no to any man.
16
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did your or Mr. Epstein's
17
relationship with Mr. -- with Bobby Kennedy continue
18
into the 2000s, as far as you know?
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I would say yes.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  Um --
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Well, mine, yes.  I
22
don't --
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  Your's -- with you.  Okay.
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  With me, for sure.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you know whether

Page 246
1
Mr. Epstein and Mr. Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, continued
2
to have relationships into the 2000s?
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I have no personal
4
knowledge of that.  I mean, I would -- because --
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah, no personal knowledge
6
is fine.
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Another thing is that
8
everyone puts us together like a monolith.
9
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.
10
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  He literally had a
11
separate life from me.  I literally had a separate
12
life from him.  Now, did they say?  Well, of course
13
they did.  I'm not-- that's -- I'm not crazy.
14
           But he kept a lot to himself and he didn't
15
like to share.  He was not a sharer.  Well, at least
16
not with me.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  Mr. Epstein didn't share,
18
you're saying?
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Not with me, no.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did you -- do you know
21
somebody named Cheryl Mills?
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I do.
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  Used to work in the White
24
House as a lawyer?
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes, I do.  Yes.

Page 247
1
           TODD BLANCHE:  How do you know Ms. Mills?
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I met Ms. Mills
3
through President Clinton.
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you remember a --
5
generally, the timeframe that you -- you met her?
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I do, actually.  Hang
7
on.  I'm sorry.  I'm just trying to remember -- I'm
8
trying to get my dates right.
9
           DAVID MARKUS:  Approximately.
10
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Well, okay.  I can't
11
get my dates right.  But it's something you probably
12
can -- going to be in the early 2000s.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So what I don't
15
recall --
16
           TODD BLANCHE:  So --
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I want to say 2002.
18
I'm going to say 2002, 2003.
19
           TODD BLANCHE:  So it was after President
20
Clinton left office?
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Oh, yes.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  And so it was in the 2000s.
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Definitely.
24
           TODD BLANCHE:  And how -- what -- how did
25
you meet her?  What were the circumstances under

Page 248
1
which you met Ms. Mills?
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I went on a trip with
3
the President to South America.
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  With which president?
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Oh, sorry.
6
President Clinton.
7
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.  Okay.  Just, you
8
know --
9
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Sorry.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- just wanted -- it was --
11
I just wanted to make sure it was clear.
12
           Okay.  So you went on a trip to -- to
13
where?
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Latin America.
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  And who -- and so Ms. Mills
16
was on that trip?
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  She was.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  And President Clinton was
19
on that trip?
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  He was.
21
           TODD BLANCHE:  Who else was on that trip?
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Doug Band.
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  Who worked with President
24
Clinton?
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.

Page 249
1
           TODD BLANCHE:  And was Mr. Epstein?
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  And what was the purpose of
4
that trip?
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Well, the President
6
had -- I don't know.  I mean, I -- the President met
7
with -- I can't even remember every -- all the, I
8
know, presidents and we were in --
9
           TODD BLANCHE:  Was this part of President
10
Clinton's work after he left office with the -- with
11
his foundation?  Or was -- meaning what --
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't think the
13
foundation, when did the --
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- was it something for him
15
or was it --
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  When did the -- I
17
don't remember when the Clinton Global Initiative
18
started.
19
           So if you date me -- if you give me that
20
date, I can tell you if it was pre or post.  Because
21
without that, I can't pin the reason.
22
           DAVID MARKUS:  Do you remember what it was
23
for or not?
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.  I don't recall.
25
           DAVID MARKUS:  Okay.

Page 250
1
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I mean, I don't --
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah, that's -- don't over
3
think or under think the reason for my questions.
4
           I don't -- I don't have any idea why you
5
went on that trip, so I don't know an answer that I'm
6
getting from you.
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No, I'm just trying to
8
be as accurate as possible and give you the
9
information that you seek.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  Why would you -- do you
11
remember why you were invited to go?  Like were you
12
-- were you friends with somebody?  What was your
13
role going on that trip?
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I didn't have a role.
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  So do you remember why --
16
do you remember who invited you to go?
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  If -- probably
18
Doug Band.
19
           TODD BLANCHE:  And how did you know Doug?
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Because Doug and --
21
again, back with Philip Levine.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  Got it.  And do you know
23
whether he had a relationship with Mr. Epstein?
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Who?
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  Doug.

Page 251
1
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I -- I don't know.  I
2
mean, nothing.  He -- I don't believe there was any
3
relationship, other than I helped -- well, without
4
me, I don't think there would've been those flights,
5
because I was the one who asked Epstein to provide
6
the plane for -- well, certainly I remember the one
7
to Africa, of course, that big trip.
8
           And I thought it was an honor and a
9
privilege to be part of something so amazing and to
10
have an opportunity to spend time with a man that I
11
found truly extraordinary.
12
           And please, I don't mean it in any other
13
way, other than as a former fantastic ex-president.
14
I don't --
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  So I was asking around the
16
question, but I'll just ask it:  like, were you
17
basically asked to go because you were kind of
18
responsible for the plane?
19
           Responsible is the wrong word.  They use
20
you -- they were able to use you to make sure that
21
they could -- you helped them get Mr. Epstein's plane
22
for the trip?
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No, I don't even know
24
if when I was on that -- in fact, I think -- I think,
25
that trip, I'm not even sure that Epstein had met the

Page 252
1
President.
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I think this is -- but
4
if I'm right, and I think I am, I think that trip
5
happened when Epstein and Clinton had never even --
6
not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
7
to the White House, but they had not met.
8
           I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
9
because they'd never met and it would be weird.  But
10
they met because of me and the plane was because of
11
me.  But that trip was the first, I think, the first
12
trip I took with the ex-president.  And I don't
13
believe Epstein and he had met.
14
           And we're talking a time period when I was
15
trying to --
16
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- leave.  Not very
18
successfully obviously, but I was branching out on my
19
own and being more independent of Mr. Epstein and
20
trying to -- all kinds of businesses that I was into.
21
           I was trying to start the first telehealth
22
medicine with the Cleveland Clinic.  I mean, I'm not
23
going to bore you, because I don't think that's what
24
you guys are interested in, but those were the sorts
25
of things that I was looking for him to finance, so

Page 253
1
that I could stop being, you know, a general manager
2
of a hotel.
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did you -- so did you take
4
other trips with some or all of those individuals,
5
kind of without Mr. Epstein in later years?  Like,
6
you said that was the first time that you had kind of
7
been on something like that and it was an honor and
8
you were spending time with former President Clinton
9
and others.
10
           Were there other -- over the years, did
11
you do that more than once?
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  We'll talk about those.
14
Like multiple times, like too many to count or there
15
three or four times.  Like how many times?
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  A lot.  A lot.  I went
17
on a lot of trips.  Now I don't recall all of them.
18
Not because I'm trying to be evasive or anything, but
19
I just don't remember them all.
20
           And after a while, you know, in the
21
incredible job that you have, all of you, that when
22
you're so high pressured and you're spending so much
23
time with extraordinary people like you do with
24
President Trump, it -- it can blur.  It just does.
25
           And those few things that stand out,

Page 254
1
because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
2
cars and sirens and president.  It's like, whoa,
3
okay.
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  So, I understand, but
5
talk -- so don't give me spec- --
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Right.
7
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- I understand you can't
8
give specific numbers.  What -- describe more about
9
kind of your, that part of your life and your
10
relationship.  I'm using "relationship."  You don't
11
like relationships.
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Right, right.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  And your -- sorry.  And
14
your --
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  My employer.
16
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yes.  Just describe your --
17
what you were doing with those individuals.  So when
18
I say "those individuals," I'm talking about former
19
President Clinton, Doug, other folks that worked with
20
him.
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  All of them.  Yes.
22
There were loads of them.  And just all of them, you
23
know the team, I don't need to give you all the
24
names.  You have them at your fingertips and I can
25
confirm.  If you give me names, I'll say yes, because

Page 255
1
they're not all going to pop into my head, so.
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  Right.
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.  So I started
4
spending a lot of time.  I don't want to characterize
5
that, but I started spending time with the former
6
President and with Doug and his team.
7
           And then it -- I had no purpose, really,
8
other than I had -- I obviously offered something, I
9
don't know, ideas of -- I don't know.
10
           Anyway.  And he started to travel.  I
11
don't remember if the first trip was Africa or how it
12
went, but at some point, I think there was actually
13
two trips, but I'm not sure.  So there was to Europe
14
and then to Africa, I think maybe it was all one
15
trip.
16
           And at some point, Mr. Epstein said he
17
didn't want to go on the trip and he was going
18
somewhere else and he just left.  And I was like,
19
well, okay.  And so I ended up doing the whole trip
20
without Mr. Epstein or his plane.
21
           TODD BLANCHE:  And when you were traveling
22
with them, what were the purposes of the trips?  Like
23
is this one --
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I think these were
25
all -- I think actually it was the AIDS, was one of

Page 256
1
the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he
2
was working to do that.  And there were always a
3
humanitarian side to the trips.
4
           And we went to Egypt and to, there was --
5
oh, yeah.
6
           TODD BLANCHE:  So there -- so it sounds
7
like you're describing one -- right now, one trip
8
with lots of stops.
9
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  It could be, but I
10
have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I
11
can't remember.
12
           TODD BLANCHE:  When you -- when you went
13
on these --
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I went to London.
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  Went to London.  Okay.
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't know if that's
17
the same trip.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  When you went on these
19
trips, that -- were you always on Mr. Epstein's
20
plane?
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- Or did you sometimes
23
accompany them on a different plane?
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Correct.  Yes.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  How many were on

Page 257
1
Mr. Epstein's plane?  Again, I'm not holding you to
2
exact, but --
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  That was a full, that
4
was packed.  Because it was a lot of secret service.
5
It took all the Secret Service as well.
6
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So it was whatever the
8
detail is for Secret Service, it's a lot.
9
           TODD BLANCHE:  And on how many occasions,
10
besides the trip you just described, were there other
11
times when they used -- when President Clinton and
12
the folks he was with, used Mr. Epstein's plane?
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I think it was --
14
there was twice, maybe.  There was that.  But it will
15
reflect on the logs.  There won't be anything that's
16
not on the logs that you have already.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  Were you, by the way,
18
responsible for the logs in any way?  Like, you've
19
seen the logs and they're public and you have them in
20
discovery.
21
           But over the years when you were working
22
with or for Mr. Epstein, did you have access to the
23
logs?
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I was, not.  No,
25
never.  The pilots -- the logbook was their personal

Page 258
1
logbook.
2
           I never even saw them have it.  I never
3
saw them fill it in.  And then there was a second set
4
of logs, the -- the flight manifests.  And I never
5
saw those either.  I was never -- I was never
6
allowed, I suppose.  Because he didn't want me to
7
see.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you know -- so do you
9
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
10
with -- with President Clinton, different from the
11
what you just described?  So different than being
12
with him, with respect to his foundation or something
13
like this?
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I would say no.
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  When's the last time that
16
you went on a trip or saw President Clinton?
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  It was in -- was late
18
2000 and, I don't know, '16, '17, '18, something
19
in -- it was in Los Angeles.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  And what was the purpose of
21
that meeting?
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I think he was hosting
23
something or he was at an event and I was in L.A. and
24
I had dinner with him.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  Had -- did you ever meet

Page 259
1
Secretary Clinton, Hillary Clinton?
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  When did you meet her?
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I want to say --
5
again, please don't hold me to it, but I want to say
6
that it was on a flight that came from the island
7
from -- not from the island, from the Nantucket or --
8
or Martha's Vineyard back to New York, is what I
9
think.  I might be wrong.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  So some -- an East
11
Coast island, like Nantucket --
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- Or something like this?
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.  No, -- the
15
Clint- -- the ex-president never came to the island.
16
           TODD BLANCHE:  And did you -- is that the
17
only time that you met Hillary Clinton?
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No, I went to the
19
house in Chappaqua a few times.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  And why did you go to the
21
house?
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I was invited.
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  Just to see
24
President Clinton or Hillary Clinton or both or --
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yeah, I mean, as a

Page 260
1
friend, not for -- I don't -- there was no -- I don't
2
remember any reason, either was somehow I
3
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
4
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
5
           And it's -- I know it sounds a little
6
flippant, but it could -- it could have even
7
something as --
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  And do you know whether
9
Mr. Epstein had -- knew or had any sort of visit
10
dealings or -- associated with Hillary Clinton?
11
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I would say no.
12
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did -- did you ever see
13
them together?
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did -- do you know whether
16
Mr. Epstein ever did any business transactions with
17
the Clintons?
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I would -- well, I'm
19
not sure I can.  I'm not sure how to quite -- I don't
20
know the answer to that strictly, because, I was -- I
21
was part of the beginning process of the Clinton
22
Global Initiative.
23
           And that was something that I helped with
24
and that was me, and Epstein may have helped me help
25
them.  And in that context, he may well have involved

Page 261
1
himself, but only in the context of something that I
2
was trying to do.
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  So when you say "involved
4
himself," meaning like, give money to the Clinton
5
Global Initiative or something like this?
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Well, so there's that.
7
I think he did do that.  And that, I believe, the
8
money that he may have given could have been
9
independent of me.  But I think it's just easier if I
10
just tell you how it happened, rather than --
11
otherwise it sounds all odd and funky.  I went to
12
Davos with a former president and I -- have you been
13
to Davos?
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  In what?
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Have you been to
16
Davos?
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  I have not.
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.  Well, you know,
19
it's a -- you know what it is, right?  Okay.  So --
20
and I was -- I thought the former president should
21
have his own Davos, because it would be -- and they
22
had -- it turned out, that they had been thinking
23
about it anyway.
24
           And so we were talking about it and, you
25
know, it's a very heavy lift to get something like

Page 262
1
that to go.  And I was friendly with one of the
2
people who had -- I don't know if he was at the
3
beginning of Davos or -- but he was running Davos.
4
           It was just -- I don't know, hard to
5
describe his actual role at Davos and had
6
conversations with him about what did he think, you
7
know?  Oh, just because I was having dinner with him
8
about if Clinton could get something like that to go,
9
what was his thoughts?
10
           And he was very, very enthusiastic.  I
11
mean, he was like, that's just an incredible idea.
12
So I put them together.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  Who -- what's that person's
14
name?  Do you remember?
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I knew you were going
16
to ask me.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I can -- I can --
19
           TODD BLANCHE:  Just -- you said -- I
20
didn't know if you knew his -- if you remember his
21
name.
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I do know.  I do, but
23
I just --
24
           TODD BLANCHE:  Can't remember his name.
25
Okay.

Page 263
1
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  It will come to me.
2
It may come to me tomorrow, but eventually these
3
things, like, surface from -- like in the middle of
4
the night, I was scribbling names --
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- that I couldn't
7
remember from yesterday.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
9
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  But his name will come
10
to me, and if not, we can find it.
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  So you -- when
12
the -- just still stay -- staying on your
13
relationship with -- sorry, the -- your association
14
with the Clintons.
15
           You were part of the ramp up or the
16
startup of the Clinton Global Initiative --
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I was.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- and helping them in
19
supporting that effort.
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I -- I would say very
21
central to that, yes.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  And Mr. Epstein, was he
23
part of the work around that or just in support of
24
you?
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  He supported me to

Page 264
1
help them, but then I think he may have tried to use
2
that to insert himself in some way, that would not
3
have surprised me at all.
4
           And I know that he was annoying, in terms
5
that I could catch him on the phone and he wouldn't
6
always agree with what I wanted to do.  And I was
7
like, it's not your idea.  I don't really care what
8
you think, but that didn't go over so well.
9
           TODD BLANCHE:  And --
10
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Oh, I just want to
11
say, it wasn't my idea for his CGI.
12
           TODD BLANCHE:  Wasn't your -- say it
13
again.
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  It's not my idea.
15
They had had that idea before.  I just helped bring
16
key personnel to --
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  You're saying the idea of
18
President Clinton kind of having his own Davos
19
like --
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I'm not -- I'm not
21
owning.  I didn't -- that's not --
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  Understood.
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't want anyone --
24
I don't try to elevate myself in any form of
25
importance here.

Page 265
1
           TODD BLANCHE:  No, I understand.
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did you go to Davos with
4
President Clinton more than once or just once?
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I can't remember.
6
Once for sure.  And I think maybe twice, but I don't
7
remember.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did -- and you're not, I
9
think you said, you don't -- you're not aware of
10
President Clinton ever going to the island?
11
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  He never.  Absolutely
12
never went.  And I can be sure of that because
13
there's no way he would've gone -- I don't believe
14
there's any way that he would've gone to the island,
15
had I not been there.  Because I don't believe he had
16
an independent friendship, if you will, with Epstein.
17
           Did they speak?  Did he go?  Yes, but
18
that's very different from going to spend time on an
19
island.
20
           And plus, the story as told is so patently
21
absurd that I flew him in the helicopter.  I am a
22
helicopter pilot, that is true.  But the notion of me
23
flying an ex-president in a machine.  That would
24
terrify me.  I would never even take that
25
responsibility.  Can you imagine?  Yeah, no.  I'm not

Page 266
1
-- I'm -- no.
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did -- did you ever go with
3
President Clinton to any of Epstein -- Mr. Epstein's
4
properties?
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I --
6
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- so like New Mexico,
7
Palm Beach, or in New York?
8
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I have no memory of
9
him in any of those places.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  When you were in London
11
with President Clinton, did you -- did you ever go to
12
your -- to your flat with him?
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't think he did.
14
I don't -- I don't think so, because this, like, it's
15
like -- he wouldn't even -- he wouldn't even be able
16
to carry all his Secret Service with him.  I don't
17
think so, no.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  Do you know -- we
19
talked a little about the Duchess of York, about
20
Sarah Ferguson yesterday.
21
           Did -- when's the -- when the last time
22
you, like -- when's the last time you, you saw her?
23
Like, were you -- were you -- do you have a -- were
24
you with her or hang out with her, socializing with
25
her, in the '90s, 2000s?  Both?

Page 267
1
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  She's -- well, I had
2
a -- I don't know if she liked me very much.  I think
3
my friendship with her ex-husband -- well, sometimes
4
she really did like me and sometimes she didn't.  So
5
maybe a frenemy, I don't know.
6
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I -- it was always
8
friendly when we were together, but I think that
9
there was some latent hostility.  And I --
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  Is that something you've
11
heard since everything came out or along the way you
12
felt that way?
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No, that's how I felt.
14
That -- that is a characterization of myself.  That's
15
how I felt about her.  I would never -- I was always
16
friendly with her.  I mean, she's -- I mean, I've
17
seen her many, many times and she's also super, super
18
close with other people I'm very good friends with in
19
England.  I think that -- I think that she liked
20
Mr. Epstein.
21
           TODD BLANCHE:  Why do you think that?
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  My female intuition.
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
24
           LEAH SAFFIAN:  Discovery.
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Oh.

Page 268
1
           LEAH SUFFIAN:  The letter.
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't remember it.
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  It's okay.
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.  I don't -- it's
5
possible that there's things -- well, I know -- it's
6
not possible.  I know that there is discovery, but I
7
don't recall.  But I think she had a thing for him.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did -- there's some actors
9
or some folks from Hollywood that I want to ask you
10
about, just to understand whether you knew them or
11
Mr. Epstein knew them.  Chris Tucker?
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  How did you know
14
Mr. Tucker?
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I think only from that
16
flight to Africa.  But I do think that they met --
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  You say that flight to
18
Africa, the one we were just talking about with --
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- President Clinton?
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.  Sorry.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  Sorry, go ahead.  Yep.
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  But I also think that
24
they kept a little bit in touch and I think we met,
25
or I have a memory of him maybe in L.A., I don't

Page 269
1
know.  I think they sort of loosely stayed in touch.
2
I wouldn't -- I don't think it -- I don't know.  I
3
don't know how to say that.
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you know Mr. Tucker
5
besides that flight?
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
7
           TODD BLANCHE:  And do you know whether --
8
when you say you think that they kept in touch, you
9
mean you think that Mr. Epstein and Mr. Tucker --
10
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  They may have.  I
11
didn't, but he might have.  I'm not sure.
12
           TODD BLANCHE:  Kevin Spacey?
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I know him also from
14
that same flight.
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  Aside from that flight, do
16
you know him from any other thing?
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  Naomi Campbell?
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes, I do know Naomi,
20
and I knew her before I met Mr. Epstein and Mr. --
21
former President Clinton.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you know whether
23
Mr. Epstein separately knew Ms. Campbell?
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I think she -- he
25
probably met her through me, that I imagine.

Page 270
1
           TODD BLANCHE:  And so for those three,
2
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and Ms. Campbell, did they
3
ever travel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the
4
island or New Mexico?
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Not Mr. Tucker --
6
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey.
7
           Naomi Campbell may have.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  To where?
9
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  She may have gone --
10
well, she certainly -- well, I believe she visited
11
him in Palm Beach, and I believe she may have gone to
12
the island and she may have gone to see his house in
13
New York.  Whether she went to New Mexico or Paris as
14
well, maybe.  They were friends or friendly.
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  Were you -- what you just
16
said "she may have," were you on those trips?
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't have any
18
independent memory of that, so I'm not sure.  I don't
19
think so.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you know --
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Her relationship, her
22
friendship, her -- I think you're making me use your
23
word.  Her -- her friendship, whatever, with
24
Mr. Epstein was independent of me.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  But you also had a

Page 271
1
separate friendship with her before you met
2
Mr. Epstein?
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I did.
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  Larry Summers, the
5
former Secretary of the Treasury.
6
           Do you know that person?
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I did, yes.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  How?
9
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I met Mr. Summers
10
through Mr. Epstein.
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  And the same question, just
12
generally time period, are you talking about early
13
2000s, '90s, a little after that?
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I honestly really
15
don't know.
16
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I did want to say
18
something.  I forgot that there was -- yesterday.
19
You asked me about Mr. Epstein's properties.  He had
20
a rental in Boston as well, but it -- not for very
21
long, but it was another place that I had to put
22
together.  And I only went with him once and he would
23
go there independently of me.  No, I would not go
24
with him.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  Was that in the '90s?

Page 272
1
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I think it was, yes.
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  Mr. Summers, do you know
3
why -- do you know what his relationship was with
4
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
5
know?
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I think he spoke to
7
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
8
were friends.  They were friendly.
9
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you know whether
10
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
11
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned?
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  He may have, but I
13
don't think, if he did, I was on any of the flights.
14
I mean, those are another issues.  I mean, I went --
15
I traveled so, so much that I really -- the flights
16
just blur.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  I understand.
18
           George Soros?
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't think he knew
20
him.  I did, but I don't think he did.  I don't
21
think.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  How did you know Mr. Soros?
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I was friends with his
24
kids.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  What -- which kids?

Page 273
1
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Jon and -- I can't
2
think of his other child.  I can't think of -- I
3
mean, I've lost his name.
4
           LEAH SAFFIAN:  Alexander.
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Who?
6
           LEAH SAFFIAN:  Alexander.
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I met him, but just
8
socially.  He may not remember even having met me.  I
9
was excited to meet him.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  When are you thinking --
11
when would you have met him?
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  If I met him it -- I
13
think it was either at an event or at his kids -- it
14
wouldn't have been at his house.  An event, I
15
think -- or I think actually, no, in the Hamptons I
16
met him.  He was staying at somebody's house.  If --
17
if my memory serves.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  And what was your
19
relationship?  How did you know his kids?
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I was out and about in
21
New York a lot.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  So just socially?
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Just socially, yes.
24
And -- yeah, just socially, I think.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you know -- do you know

Page 274
1
whether Mr. Soros or his kids ever traveled on
2
Mr. Epstein's planes?
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't think so.
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  Ever visit either the
5
island or New Mexico or --
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No, I don't think so.
7
           TODD BLANCHE:  Paris?  No?
8
           Okay.  So I -- we tried to -- to identify
9
names that have come up, either publicly or in -- in
10
other lawsuits.  Are there any names that you -- that
11
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a
12
lot of names.  A lot of names.
13
           Are there some folks that you think we've
14
forgotten to ask you about?
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Well, you asked me
16
about names and I have some names, and I just want to
17
give you some context for the names as well.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  Sure.
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So we talked about
20
Elizabeth Johnson yesterday.
21
           TODD BLANCHE:  Uh-huh.
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  She had a boyfriend
23
and he was Frederic Fekkai, the hairdresser.  And he
24
and Epstein were friendly, very friendly.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  And then what time period

Page 275
1
are you talking about?
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Well --
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  Like '90s, or 2000s, or
4
both?
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I think the 2000s,
6
actually, for that.  You can date that because it was
7
from when he -- I think he probably knew Frederic
8
before he dated Elizabeth.  But --
9
           TODD BLANCHE:  And when you say they were
10
very friendly, did they go -- did they travel
11
together?
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't know if they
13
traveled together, I mean, Epstein didn't go out very
14
much or -- I mean, he did go out, but not -- and
15
sometimes if he did, I think he would go out and
16
maybe see Fred- -- Frederic.
17
           And then there was -- I mean, he had a
18
bunch of guys that he would -- I would know that he
19
would see or meet, but he really -- I guess now -- so
20
he had new friends.  I -- I don't know, but --
21
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  What other names?
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay, so Henry
23
Jarecki, who had an island near his.  Henry was a
24
financier who was the guy who cornered the silver
25
market back in the day.

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1
           TODD BLANCHE:  He had an island in the
2
Caribbean -- in the Caribbean near Mr. Epstein?
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yeah.  In the British
4
Virgin Islands.
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And there was
7
Branson's island there.  Now I know that there's an
8
allegation that they met.  I -- I think -- I think I
9
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
10
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
11
don't -- I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and
12
him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with
13
him.
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you know whether
15
Mr. Branson ever came to Mr. Epstein's island?
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  If he did, I was not
17
there.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  Okay.
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So -- but it's
20
possible, so --
21
           TODD BLANCHE:  Understood.
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- I wanted to ...
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  Who else?
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Marvin Minsky.  He had
25
a group of scientists that he was very, very friendly

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1
with, all centered around Harvard.  So I remember
2
him.
3
           Martin Nowak, who's a mathematician.
4
Stephen Jay Gould.  I don't know if Stephen Jay Gould
5
was -- came through the Harvard angle, but I know
6
that there was a -- he would -- excuse me, Epstein
7
would have dinners at the house that I was tasked to
8
organize and the scientists were a very major
9
component of that.
10
           They weren't social dinners as much as
11
they were scientific.  He would discuss whatever he
12
would discuss.  But if you were in the area of brain
13
cognition or -- he would invite them to the house and
14
they would come, all of them.  All -- any name you
15
can name, they would be there.
16
           TODD BLANCHE:  So let's talk about that
17
top -- that relation -- those -- those associations
18
or relationships he had with the mathematicians or --
19
and with Harvard, and I think with MIT, to some
20
extent as well.
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Official
22
(indiscernible) MIT too, yeah.
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  What -- from what you
24
observed, what's the reason behind him having --
25
developing those ties with Harvard, with MIT, and

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1
with certain professors and others associated with
2
those institutions?
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  He really was
4
profoundly interested in that area of science and in
5
the brain, and in -- I mean, if you were in --
6
Stephen Jay Gould or the major scientist on
7
happiness, I mean, it -- it came, I believe, from a
8
genuine area of interest, not from anything ...
9
           TODD BLANCHE:  And how did he -- how did
10
he become friends with them?  How -- how was he able
11
to spend time with them?  Meaning, did he donate to
12
the university and then they were kind of --
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Certain --
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- it was mandatory fun for
15
them or did he have relations with them where he
16
would, you know --
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't know the
18
chicken --
19
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- host them or --
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't if the chicken
21
or the egg came first.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  But -- but when I met
24
him first, I mean, he was already doing a lot of this
25
stuff.  This is not -- I -- I've read, so this is why

Page 279
1
I'm saying this.  I was not responsible for these --
2
for this area of interest.  I mean, I certainly --
3
sorry, just to bounce a second before it slips my
4
mind and I leave something out.
5
           There was an institute in New Mexico
6
called -- anyone?  The institute of -- it's very
7
famous.  We're not talking to the Alamos.
8
           Anyway, all right.  There's a very famous
9
institute in New Mexico, so you can look it up.
10
You'll -- it'll come to you at the minute you put it
11
in your computer.
12
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And there had some of
14
the biggest brains ever.  Those -- that relationship
15
came through me, so I -- that's me.  And that is
16
because my father was -- one of the major scientific
17
hit up my family fortune, when I had one, came from
18
scientific publishing.
19
           And when it started from the thing that
20
you were asking me yesterday, my father was in the
21
Second World War, I told you, and he won the military
22
cross, and then he actually did become what was part
23
of intelligence back in the war.  And his job was to
24
interrogate German scientists and prisoners of war.
25
           And then that parleyed into business with

Page 280
1
Springer-Verlag and then into Pergamon Press, which
2
was the scientific journals business.  And he had an
3
interest -- he believed that it's -- knowledge is
4
what would prevent war.
5
           And the biggest scientific discoveries --
6
well, not all of them, but many of them are coming
7
from the Eastern block and that's how we have the
8
relationship with Santa Fe Institute.
9
           And Murray Gell-Mann, specifically.  And I
10
introduced Epstein to Murray Gell-Mann.  Sorry, to go
11
off on a tangent.
12
           TODD BLANCHE:  This is at the Santa Fe
13
Institute?
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes, thank you.  And
15
Murray Gell-Mann was there, and Murray Gell-Mann and
16
Epstein got along very, very well.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And he was the man of
19
the (unintelligible).  Sorry.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  So do you know whether --
21
so while you -- when you meet Mr. Epstein in the
22
early '90s continuing on, so not what he had done
23
before, did he -- why do you think, from what you saw
24
or what you heard, he had the relationship or wanted
25
to have the relationships that he had with Harvard

Page 281
1
and with -- and with MIT?
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So I think that that
3
may have come with Wexner.  I'm not sure, but that's
4
something that I think that Wexner maybe had a
5
relationship with Harvard, and that he used that
6
relationship to, I believe, he funded a lot.
7
           And if he didn't, that his clients of
8
which Wexner obviously was one, would fund.  And he
9
would -- he would then make -- he would arrange the
10
fund or --
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did --
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- organize the fund,
13
or I don't know.
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  I'm going to take -- we'll
15
take a break in a -- in a minute, but just to kind of
16
set us up for what we're going to talk about next.
17
           Mr. Ep- -- we talked yesterday morning
18
about Mr. Epstein's kind of business and how he had
19
money.  Did he seem to live beyond his means, as far
20
as what he was making?
21
           So did you ever get the sense while you
22
were with him, that it was suspicious or curious how
23
he was able to have the funds to, you know, buy, you
24
know, two planes, you know, an island, and
25
New Mexico, you know, the ranch, almost -- almost

Page 282
1
unlimited funds?
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  You said it perfectly.
3
I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
4
reason to believe that it came from anything
5
nefarious.
6
           I saw him work.  I never saw him really do
7
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
8
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
9
accounts.
10
           And he dealt with pretty much every
11
financier that you could care to mention.  And if I
12
could have access to the names, I'd be able to tell
13
you which ones you -- I just don't remember them all.
14
           But in every bank, Goldman, Lehman, all of
15
them, to my mind anyway.  And most of the major
16
businessmen at that time, he was in the Council of
17
Foreign Relations, so you had access.  That's an
18
extraordinary list of people.  It just is.
19
           And then he -- you asked me about his, but
20
I -- so I thought about it last night, how to try and
21
explain what it was and I think the best thing is to
22
focus only on Wexner's business.
23
           So I was present for some of their
24
meetings in some of their business, and I listened.
25
And so things that I personally recollect, and I know

Page 283
1
I heard, was that he would -- when I told you
2
yesterday, I think, that he would, no detail was too
3
small, so he would do the contracts with the staff, I
4
think, and I saw that myself.
5
           And he also organized all the trusts for
6
all the children, so if Wexner had kids -- and
7
Wexner -- I don't know if he did, he did have
8
children.  So every time there was a child, he would
9
create a trust for that child.
10
           And I don't -- these were complex
11
financial structures that would contain stocks of the
12
various businesses.  He restructured, when I was
13
there, Wexner's business in its entirety, as I
14
recollect.
15
           And then not only that, but there were
16
business interests, so Wexner owned or build, or
17
designed, or I don't quite know how to characterize
18
it, but New Albany, which is a center outside of
19
Ohio, Columbus, Ohio, specifically.
20
           And he built -- I remember this
21
conversation, he built himself a very large house,
22
like truly enormous and it's one of the biggest
23
private homes I've ever been to.
24
           And he built all the houses around him,
25
and I'm like, this is so random, why would you do

Page 284
1
that?  And he said to me, well, because I want to
2
make sure that the people around me are my friends --
3
I want my friends around me and my neighbors.  And I
4
was like, well, whatever.  Okay, you know.  I've been
5
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
6
-- at some point I just say, okay, whatever.  I get
7
it, and I don't.  And so that's what he did.
8
           But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
9
a country club and a golf club and a -- I mean, gosh,
10
your boss is one of the all-time great, you know,
11
businessmen in this area.  You know what that is.
12
And he certainly does.
13
           So there'd be that, and there was a
14
business business that Epstein -- well, he told me he
15
owned it, but of course, I can't say that for sure,
16
because I don't know, but it's a sports thing.
17
Riddell, is that a business?  Riddell's?  I thought
18
about it last night.  It's red and had hats, helmets.
19
Riddell's?
20
           LEAH SAFFIAN:  Riddell.
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Riddell.  Yeah,
22
Riddell's.
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Now, how he owned
25
that -- well, he told me he owned it, but how he

Page 285
1
owned that, I -- but that was before I think I came
2
in and he had it, or he said he did.
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  Got it.
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And he had other
5
businesses.  He had -- I know this notion that he did
6
nothing and he just was a grifter and whatnot.
7
           Okay.  I'm not going to say that's not
8
true, but it's not what I saw and it's not what I
9
believe is true.  Not because it couldn't have been
10
that he didn't grift or whatever the word is off --
11
off people, but I saw where I thought looked like
12
real work.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  Well, why don't we take
14
a -- take a break.  Okay.
15
           DAVID MARKUS:  Yeah.  Thank you.
16
           SPENCER HORN:  All right.  The time is now
17
10:35 and we'll take a break.
18
           (Off the record at 10:35 a.m.)
19
           SPENCER HORN:  We are resuming from break.
20
The time is 10:49 on Friday, July 25th.
21
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  All right.  So we've
22
talked around this issue, but -- talked about it a
23
little bit.  I want to spend the next hour or so or
24
however long it takes.
25
           When you -- when we -- I want to talk,

Page 286
1
focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
2
criminal conduct with respect to women.
3
           Do you -- you said yesterday a couple
4
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
5
that there was things that he did that you didn't
6
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
7
didn't see.
8
           What did you see?  So you said yesterday,
9
and I'm not -- I'm not trying to put words in your
10
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
11
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day.
12
Women have said that -- that were there -- that say
13
they were there giving him massages, said that those
14
included some sort of sexual conduct, however, you
15
define that in the broadest sense, not just a
16
traditional massage, regularly.
17
           So what do you -- what did you see and
18
hear at the time?  And then I think, aside from what
19
you saw and heard at the time, now that you've been
20
through what you've been through and heard people say
21
what they've said, and read what they read, what do
22
you -- where does that leave you in your mind with
23
what happened?
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.  So I saw
25
Epstein with women.  I mean, what I mean by that is

Page 287
1
he would have women around him, or women on the
2
plane, or women in his house, or -- that's how I'm
3
explaining that.
4
           Those women were very interested.  What --
5
my characterization of the interest -- the
6
relationships between all women that I saw with him
7
and him, was characterized by -- excuse me, their
8
interest in him as I would see it.
9
           And by that, I mean, I never saw anybody
10
who didn't want to be with him and be with him, maybe
11
socially or whatever.  I never saw anybody, not under
12
any form of duress in any type of situation where
13
they were, as I would characterize it, looking
14
uncomfortable or in any way distressed.
15
           In the entire time I was with him or
16
traveled with him, I never saw that.  So any time I
17
saw anybody with him, they were happy to be with him.
18
He would ask people all the time, whoever you were,
19
to massage his feet.
20
           It just was -- he'd be sitting there, and
21
he'd have somebody massage his feet, or squeeze his
22
shoulders, or -- I saw that a lot.  It was an
23
ubiquitous interaction, if you will.
24
           So I did see that.  I saw physicality, but
25
not anything that was -- I don't know how to

Page 288
1
characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
2
suppose, to define that.  So I never saw an
3
aggressive move.
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  Well --
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I never saw anything
6
that was --
7
           TODD BLANCHE:  Non-consensual.
8
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Thank you.  Okay.  I
9
never saw anything that was non-consensual.  So if
10
he -- well, maybe they didn't -- I never saw anything
11
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never
12
saw what I would characterize as anything that was
13
unconsensual.
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did you see -- did you see
15
him either receiving or participating in sexual
16
conduct during massages?  Understanding you never saw
17
something nonconsensual.
18
           Did you see him engage in sexual conduct
19
during massages?
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Well, you could define
21
sexual conduct as in, I did see women who could have
22
been, you know, less than normally clad for massage,
23
but especially on the island where they would be in a
24
bikini or possibly even topless, yeah, I did see
25
that.  So you would --

Page 289
1
           TODD BLANCHE:  But what about in -- so --
2
yes, I agree, that's one area.  Like -- so women who
3
were either not clothed or topless with just a bottom
4
on.  But beyond that, did you see as part of that him
5
touching them?
6
           And again, I'm not talking about consent
7
or not consent or age or -- you know, I'm saying like
8
there's multiple, multiple, you know, dozens and
9
dozens of women who have said that they were -- that
10
they engaged in sexual contact.  And I agree, there's
11
a broad range of what that can -- how that can be
12
defined, but defining it in the broadest of terms.
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So him being physical
14
with women?  I did see that, but nothing that was not
15
consensual.  And to address the issue of the large
16
number of women who today say that he was
17
non-consensual coercive with them.  I'm not sure.
18
I -- in my mind I sort of have to characterize the
19
two distinct areas.  There's one where is the women
20
who are not of age.  Therefore, anything with them is
21
immediately unconsensual.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  Correct, yeah.
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So let's start -- I
24
want to define anyone who's underage versus anybody
25
who's over age, because I do think that there's a

Page 290
1
very significant differential between the two.
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  So does the law.
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.  Okay.  So --
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't mean that.
6
           TODD BLANCHE:  No, no.
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I'm not trying to be
8
smart.
9
           TODD BLANCHE:  I agree with you.  Yes, I
10
agree with you.  Yeah, yeah.  Yeah.
11
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.  So I want to
12
deal with the thing, which is really why we're here.
13
I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the
14
other, but I just --
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- want to make a
17
distinction with underage situation, because there's
18
nothing about that that's right.
19
           I never saw anything with anybody who was
20
certainly to be categorical in my -- from my trial.
21
           Let's deal with that, because that's
22
something that I can say in -- I never saw that with
23
them at all.  And I would say that as -- as
24
described, anyway, in my trial did not happen as
25
described.

Page 291
1
           I'm not saying that Mr. Epstein did not do
2
those things.  I'm not casting those -- I'm not going
3
to say -- I don't feel comfortable saying that today,
4
given what I now know to be true.  So I am not here
5
to defend him.
6
           But what I can say is that I did not
7
participate in that activity.  And --
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  So let's divide this into
9
two areas.  Maybe there's more, but we'll start with
10
two areas.  One is there was testimony and there's
11
certainly been depositions and public statements,
12
that some of these young women had conversations with
13
you about their age.
14
           So, for example, conversations about the
15
fact that they were in high school or conversations
16
about the fact that they wanted to go to college one
17
day, which would necessarily mean -- well, not
18
necessarily, but would be more likely to mean that
19
they were in high school when they talked to you
20
about that.
21
           And so, were there times -- were there
22
women that you knew were underage?  And I say that
23
because that's different than whether they were
24
sexually abused in any way by Mr. Epstein, just
25
merely their age and going to give him a massage?

Page 292
1
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No, I never knew that
2
and I can categorically state that had any child said
3
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
4
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
5
they were 17, I don't -- but I've read so much that
6
that did happen.
7
           I mean, I just -- I had no -- I would
8
never have permitted such a thing, I would not -- I
9
don't even know what I would have done.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  So some of the -- I think
11
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly
12
have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when
13
she was introduced to Mr. Epstein.
14
           In -- in your mind today, you don't -- you
15
kind of reject that that happened, that you saw that,
16
meaning you don't recall any obviously under 18 woman
17
coming to give him a massage?
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Well, I believe you're
19
talking about Jane, and I'm --
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- very happy to
22
address that.  I actually don't think that the
23
testimony is correct.  I don't believe --
24
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah, look, I don't --
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.  No, no, I'm

Page 293
1
not -- I just wanted to tell you how --
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah, yeah, I don't want to
3
get into --
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No, no, no, I'm not --
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- he said, she said.
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- no, no.  Absolutely
7
not.  I'm not -- I don't want to go there either.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah, yeah.
9
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I'm not going to do
10
that.  But I believe that what took place, with a lot
11
of these people, is that there was a slide, right?
12
           So there was a zone and I -- he did meet
13
her and I did meet her, and I knew that she was a
14
young child and I knew that she was not an adult,
15
because -- but I don't believe he met her 'til she
16
was 16.
17
           So I'm not -- I'm not doing a he said, she
18
said, I'm not doing that, because nobody will.
19
That's not what we're here for.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  But he didn't meet her
22
'til she was 16, and the entire testimony of the 14,
23
15, and 16-year-old is, therefore, not accurate.
24
           Did I meet her when she was 16 with her
25
mother?  I absolutely did.  And did I know that she

Page 294
1
was young?  I absolutely did.
2
           But everything that took place that was
3
alleged at trial at the 14, and 15, and 16, is not
4
accurate.  And -- I don't --
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  There's testimony or
6
there's -- and again, I'm using testimony in the
7
broadest sense.  Some of this is just public
8
statements or something that's come out in civil
9
lawsuits about you and Mr. Epstein giving, like an
10
18 -- you're turning 18 birthday card to somebody,
11
which again, if true would, by definition mean you
12
knew that she was under 18.
13
           Do you recall doing that?
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I do not.  I mean, no
15
memory of that at all.  And I believe that would be
16
the person that called herself Kate has now announced
17
herself in her own podcast for who she really is.
18
           Her name is 
.  So I did not meet
19
 until actually, she was either 20 or 21.  So
20
it would be very hard for me to have given her an 18
21
birthday card.  And the testimony -- there's also --
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you accept --
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- that slid back.
24
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- do you accept that at
25
some point, and we talked about this yesterday about
DOJ REDACTION
DOJ REDACTION

Page 295
1
how Mr. Epstein changed, but at some point,
2
Mr. Epstein definitely preferred younger women?
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I accept.
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  And I think you said
5
yesterday, but say it again since we're talking about
6
it.  Is that something that you, in your mind, one of
7
the areas where he changed from when you first met
8
him until later?
9
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So I -- when -- I just
10
also want it to be clear, I never understood that
11
change to encompass children.  I did see from when I
12
met him, he was involved or -- involved or friends
13
with or whatever, however you want to characterize
14
it, with women who were in their 20s.  And then the
15
slide to, you know, 18 or younger looking women.  But
16
I never considered that this would encompass criminal
17
behavior.  It never ...
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  And so when you read, I
19
guess, two different times, right?  One was during
20
the Florida investigation, when --
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- there were eventually
23
public statements from some of these now women who
24
testified about what they did with Mr. Epstein when
25
they were under 18.

Page 296
1
           At that point, did you realize or did you
2
think to yourself, this happened or this could have
3
happened, I missed it, or were you at that point
4
still in the mindset that they were either not
5
telling the truth or were not remembering what
6
happened the way that -- accurately?
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  That's a very fair
8
question.  So I think that my view of this at that
9
time, to call it as contemporaneously as it did,
10
because I don't think that stuff came out in public,
11
right?  I mean, I may have read things, but I
12
don't -- my first real ---
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah, that's fair.
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- memory of that is
15
at the trial.  But my viewpoint, if you will, was set
16
from the minute that 
 lied in her civil
17
deposition.  And I could never recover from that,
18
because --
19
           TODD BLANCHE:  What are you -- what are
20
you -- which lie, what are you referring to?
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Her entire
22
characterization --
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- of -- no, I don't
25
remember how she came and whether I did, --
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1
           TODD BLANCHE:  I see.
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- but I'm talking
3
about the first time she came to Epstein's house,
4
which I knew --
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- to be false.  So
7
from that first lie of that description, I could
8
never recover from that.
9
           TODD BLANCHE:  I understand.  Okay.  So --
10
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And that tainted --
11
sorry.  Just so that we clear it, tainted, then, the
12
testimony of everybody else that I saw that came post
13
that, because I had my own personal experience, which
14
I knew to be false.
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.  And the reason why I
16
think -- and I said to Mr. Markus that -- this
17
morning that we were going to talk about this,
18
because when I think about you and the public's
19
perception of Mr. Epstein, the public is left with
20
the view that nobody in the world knows what really
21
happened except for you, okay?
22
           And now you've explained, the last day and
23
a half, how some of that's just a misperception,
24
because you weren't -- you didn't have a key to his
25
house, you weren't around as much as maybe everybody

Page 298
1
claims you were, okay?
2
           But there still is this perception out
3
there that, oh my gosh, if -- if we could talk to
4
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
5
was or how misperceived he was.  Whatever the truth
6
is about Mr. Epstein.
7
           And the challenge in my mind, just to
8
be -- I told you I would tell you when I had
9
issues -- and the challenge in my mind is that so
10
many women have -- have said that Mr. Epstein
11
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults,
12
that I don't find it -- you know, at some -- that's
13
persuasive, right, that that happened.
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.  So --
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  And so if that's persuasive
16
then -- and I think it's without -- beyond
17
contestation that he preferred younger women --
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I --
19
           TODD BLANCHE:    -- and it's also beyond,
20
I think at this point, there were certainly
21
circumstances that underage women -- well, I don't
22
want to say that you agree with me on that.
23
           I certainly believe that there were
24
younger age women that were abused by him, okay?  And
25
so -- and then so the layer that I want you to --

Page 299
1
that I really want to have a frank discussion about,
2
is some of these women have said, oh, yes, you know,
3
Ms. Maxwell was there, you know, to varying degrees.
4
She saw me there, she -- the door was open when I was
5
there.  And then much more egregious, right?  That
6
you participated and that you were part of it.
7
           And so what I really want you to have an
8
opportunity to say to us, is where on the spectrum
9
the truth is.  Whether it's somewhere in the middle,
10
whether it's one extreme or another extreme,
11
understanding.  In my mind, I'm talking about 1994 or
12
'5, to whenever, late '90s or early 2000s.
13
           DAVID MARKUS:  And let me just interrupt.
14
All I would say is, we're not here to say anything
15
one way or the other about Epstein.
16
           I agree with you that the evidence is
17
overwhelming against him, and he -- he is his own
18
person and has to deal with that.  But Ghislaine can
19
speak about what she knows --
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yes.
21
           DAVID MARKUS:  -- and from her point of
22
view and what she did.
23
           And that's what you can talk about,
24
Ghislaine.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.

Page 300
1
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So I think it's
2
helpful to put this on -- the time on the calendar,
3
because I think without that we, we're lost.  So I
4
would say we'll go from the beginning '91?  No.  '2?
5
No.  '3?  No.  '4?  No.  '5?  No.  '6?  No.
6
           In that time frame, you have the
7
allegations of Jane, who I dispute.  I don't think he
8
met her until she was --
9
           TODD BLANCHE:  Let's not talk about
10
individuals.
11
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No, no, no, I'm just
12
saying.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah, yeah.  I'm with you.
14
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  But there's only --
15
but there's only -- so in that time period, I am only
16
aware of her.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I'm aware of a girl,
19
, who said, but -- and 
 and 
,
20
those -- I don't know of any others.
21
           And if there are other people who are
22
making allegations about, I don't -- I'm not even --
23
I'm not actually aware of them.  I may have read them
24
in the -- but I don't know.
25
           So I think in the early '90s period, I
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DOJ REDACTION
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Page 301
1
think I'm fairly confident, and I can say that at
2
least as characterized, it's just -- it's just false.
3
It's just -- it didn't happen as said.
4
           Now, did it -- did it happen -- did he --
5
did he involve himself?  I knew about Jane, because I
6
saw her come to the house.  But I saw her with her
7
mother.  I know that her allegations are that there
8
were orgies, for instance.  But the people that she
9
suggests were in her orgies, didn't even work for
10
Epstein until '98 or '99.
11
           Did he do orgies with those people?  I
12
don't know anybody who was there who said that they
13
did.  I certainly didn't see it.  I can't say that
14
that happened.  Did she do it with someone else?  I
15
don't know.
16
           The stories really start -- the
17
allegations really begin with 
.  And I think
18
that you have to shift his behavior, such as it was
19
bar, there was one in California who made an
20
allegation.
21
           There was a woman who said that she -- and
22
she's -- I didn't know about.  So I think I would
23
call her the first person.  I'd be aware of him using
24
his position to --
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  But -- and sorry to
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Page 302
1
interrupt you.  But I just want to -- I don't want --
2
I don't want to have you -- I don't think it's
3
helpful for us --
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- have you kind of address
6
each allegation.
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  I want you to clear your
9
mind and just tell the truth about it.  So I'm not
10
saying you're not telling the truth.
11
           I'm saying just putting aside what other
12
people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or
13
what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in
14
the press, push those aside, you were there.
15
           And so when you go back to that time
16
period, '92, '93, '99, 2000, 2001, during that time
17
period, what did you see when it comes to young women
18
and massages?
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  All right.  Sorry.
20
           All right.  So I saw him receive massages.
21
He had regular masseuses in the '90s, people who were
22
standard and who traveled with him, and I saw that.
23
           He was living in the Iranian house, and
24
now that I look back, he had -- I didn't stay there,
25
but I would go to manage the house.  I would see

Page 303
1
women, models, or people that he would have come to
2
the house.
3
           I -- I know that I thought that he was
4
with Eva still at that time.  That's what I believed.
5
           And then subsequently believed that even
6
though she married him, I actually subsequently
7
believed that the baby that she had was his.
8
           DAVID MARKUS:  Can I interrupt for one
9
second?
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.  Of course.
11
           DAVID MARKUS:  Can I just ask some basic
12
top line questions?
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
14
           DAVID MARKUS:  Were you ever in a massage
15
room with him and a masseuse?
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
17
           DAVID MARKUS:  Okay.  Who -- when was
18
that?
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Well, he would come in
20
sometimes, and he would say, like, give her a massage
21
here, or he would grab my -- you know, but not often.
22
I mean, he did come in from time to time.
23
           DAVID MARKUS:  Were you ever in a massage
24
room with him with a masseuse that was naked or
25
giving him any sexual favors?

Page 304
1
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I never saw that.
2
           DAVID MARKUS:  Okay.
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  That I remember.
4
           DAVID MARKUS:  Okay.  Did you -- did you
5
ever -- did any of the masseuses ever discuss with
6
you giving -- that they gave sexual favors to
7
Epstein?
8
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
9
           DAVID MARKUS:  Okay.  Did you ever see an
10
underage girl go into a massage room with
11
Mr. Epstein?
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
13
           DAVID MARKUS:  If you had seen that, what
14
would you have done?  Would you have left?
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I can't even conceive.
16
I can't even conceive of -- I can't imagine what I
17
would have done.
18
           DAVID MARKUS:  All right.  I'm sorry.
19
           TODD BLANCHE:  No.  That's okay.
20
           DAVID MARKUS:  Okay.
21
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did you ever observe
22
Mr. Epstein masturbating during a massage?
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.  I mean, when I'd
24
seen him on a massage table, I had seen him
25
masturbate.  I don't know if there was a masseuse

Page 305
1
present, but I've seen him on a massage --
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  Okay.
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Sorry, I just --
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did you ever see him
5
masturbate with a masseuse -- you know, with a naked
6
woman, either giving him a massage or reporting to
7
give him a massage?
8
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't remember
9
seeing that.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did you give him massages
11
by the way?  I mean, there's a photo of you rubbing
12
his feet, and I think, but --
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I never -- I certainly
14
have been in the massage room with him, and I have
15
certainly rubbed his feet when he was -- we're
16
talking, but I was not a masseuse and I didn't
17
perform massage on him.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did you -- along -- during
19
the -- over the years, did you pay the masseuses?
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  It was typically not
21
my job, but if there was nobody else, normally -- so
22
in Palm Beach, the houseman would give the money.
23
           And in New York, he would do that, because
24
I wouldn't be in New York when he -- I mean, I don't
25
remember ever paying a masseuse in New York.

Page 306
1
           TODD BLANCHE:  So it wasn't --
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  But maybe --
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- your -- it wasn't your
4
job --
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
6
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- on a regular math --
7
basis to pay the masseuse.  So if there was a
8
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
9
seven days a week you would be the one handing them
10
money?
11
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I -- mostly I would
12
not.  I'm not saying I never did it, because that
13
wouldn't be true.  But it was not my job to pay them.
14
I mostly recall he would either pay them himself, he
15
would have money or the houseman, and I think some of
16
them would have probably received checks.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  And so just picking up on
18
what Mr. Markus was just asking you, did you
19
participate in sexual activity with him with a
20
masseuse, like at the same time?
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  And so the testi- -- I
23
don't know if there's testimony, but the women who
24
have said that that happened, categorically, that's
25
not true?

Page 307
1
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  That is categorically
2
not true.
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did you -- moving past
4
the -- and moving into the 2000s --
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I mean, I just want to
6
say that I have been -- I mean, I remember there'd be
7
times when he'd be getting a massage and I would be
8
in the room, I could be on his feet, and somebody
9
else could be on his feet, and we could be talking.
10
So there is that.
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  But that's not -- you're --
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yeah.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- not talking about
14
something that's sexual, you're talking about
15
literally just rubbing his feet?
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  But I mean --
19
           TODD BLANCHE:  But that's not what I'm
20
talking about, I'm saying --
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.  Well, they
22
could be -- the -- sometimes the women might be
23
topless who were giving that.  So you could say that
24
was sexual in that context.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  No, I'm talking about the

Page 308
1
repeated reports of certain sex acts happening with
2
you present and even participating?
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did you -- did -- in the
5
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
6
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
7
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
8
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
9
           Did you observe any, you know, massages or
10
young women giving him massages later on?  So after
11
2000, 2001 time period?
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I'm sure I did.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  And was there anything
14
different about what you observed during that period
15
and the '90s, as far as the frequency, his conduct
16
towards them?
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I think the frequency
18
increased.  I think he went from one to two in that
19
time period.  And -- but I did not see -- I have no
20
recollection of ever seeing a child entering the
21
house and giving him a massage.  I -- at that time,
22
he had moved me out of the main house.
23
           I had moved into an office with John
24
Alessi, the former butler, under the stairs.  So I
25
had an office where I would be that was not part of

Page 309
1
that -- part of the house.
2
           If I saw people, and I'm not saying I
3
didn't see people come to give him a massage, that
4
wouldn't be true either.  But if I saw someone, let's
5
say, I wouldn't -- I don't remember ever seeing
6
anybody that I would characterize as a child, no.
7
Specifically someone who accused me of seeing her at
8
the time when she came.
9
           If I did see her, and I don't believe I
10
did see her or meet her at all, but if she did, she
11
was as her -- she's described herself now, was very
12
mature and looked in her 20s.
13
           So could somebody have come that was more
14
mature looking than the allegation of what she did
15
look like, with a photograph that was produced as
16
evidence?  Yes.  But I never recall at any time
17
seeing what I would characterize as a child coming to
18
give him a massage and going upstairs.  Did I see
19
people come?  I absolutely did.
20
           Did I -- I just didn't see children.  I
21
didn't see anybody I would think of as a child.  And
22
if I had seen a child, I wouldn't -- I'm not sure
23
what I would have done.
24
           TODD BLANCHE:  Well, did you -- just
25
talking, like coming out a little bit of just bigger

Page 310
1
picture, do you -- at the time that you were in his
2
life, did -- do you -- was he a -- did he seem to you
3
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
4
right way to describe it.
5
           But when you say to me, he was getting
6
massages every single day, right?  So young women
7
were everywhere.  Multiple massages on some days.
8
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
9
Paris.  There's always women, they're always rubbing
10
him, giving him massages.  I think it's -- it would
11
be an understatement to say that that's not normal?
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I agree.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  We've all kind of been part
14
of the Epstein story over the past several years, but
15
you were there at the time.  Okay?
16
           What was it like at the time?  I mean, was
17
he a creepy guy when it came to that sort of thing?
18
Was he protective of how he looked publicly, image
19
wise?  Like at the time, what was it like?
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I think if he had been
21
creepy, like, as you would define, and you would
22
expect someone who was living that lifestyle to be
23
creepy, I don't think the women would have been
24
there.
25
           I don't think that they thought of him as

Page 311
1
creepy.  And if they did, I never saw them behave
2
like he was being weird.  Was it a lot?  Yes, it was
3
for sure.  I found it overwhelming, and I couldn't
4
understand why it was interesting, because to me,
5
it's not interesting.
6
           But he, as he defined it, he found it
7
invigorating.  He liked being with younger people and
8
not just younger people.  I'm just saying because
9
they gave him ideas, and they were up to date on
10
music and --
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah, but that's different,
12
like, a masseuse coming every day.
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I'm just telling you
14
what he was saying to me.
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I mean, to me, I just
17
found it a drag and difficult and annoying.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did you --
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  But understand I
20
wasn't the only person present.  So this time in the
21
2000s, you're talking about other people, like Sarah
22
Kellen, who was around, who interfaced with him.
23
           I didn't have to -- she was really
24
interfacing with Epstein at this point in time in his
25
life.  She was running his -- she was his assistant.

Page 312
1
And so I didn't have to --
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  That's a fair point.  But
3
move beyond the -- his assistants or the folks that
4
work with him.  What about his friends and the people
5
that were associated with him?
6
           It couldn't be -- it doesn't -- I don't
7
understand how that -- how this is an after fact of
8
Mr. Epstein.  So once he's arrested in Florida, it
9
becomes part of his story.  And then later on he's
10
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
11
now in 2025.
12
           But he was a very successful, hardworking
13
guy, and he had a lot of clients, and he flew with
14
them on vacations and went to the island.  It
15
doesn't -- I don't understand how he was able to hide
16
this, what seems to me to be some sort of sexual
17
fixation or issue --
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't --
19
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- from -- from others?
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't think he did
21
hide it.  I -- that's the answer.  And I think that
22
the people around him, I think, myself included --
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- obviously,
25
normalized his behavior on a number of fronts.  One,

Page 313
1
I think it -- because it was a self -- because so
2
many people saw it of so many -- of such a high
3
caliber down that never seemed to think it would --
4
well, if they thought it was strange probably, they
5
never said it at the time.  So it became sort of like
6
it was his thing, right?  He was always around with
7
women.
8
           Now, you don't -- I understand that it's
9
very unattractive, especially in light of everything
10
that we know today.  But at the time, the only way I
11
can sort of try and describe it is through Sex and
12
the City, the movie, the show on telly, where the --
13
this is -- that lifestyle is described on the TV show
14
constantly.
15
           There are always these women around and
16
men who like it.  And a lot of the men that I know
17
like women, and so maybe not as overtly as Epstein,
18
but he was overt, not covert, except obviously in the
19
context of the criminal behavior.
20
           So what we're discussing now, there's a
21
difference between the criminal behavior and the
22
non-criminal.  But you don't like the lifestyle, I
23
concur.
24
           I agree.  Especially now.  And I -- I own
25
my side of that fence that I was there and that I saw

Page 314
1
his behavior with women and didn't challenge him or
2
do something.
3
           But I don't -- I don't think back in the
4
'90s or the 2000s, we've had a cultural shift.  And
5
the cultural shift, I think is a very important part
6
of the analysis here.  Not because I'm trying to
7
justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
8
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
9
program.  So please, don't misunderstand this.
10
           However, in the 19- -- 2000s, when this
11
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the
12
Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the
13
women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm --
14
my memory serves, were actually targets of the
15
investigation and could have been charged with
16
prostitution and trafficking, I would -- if
17
trafficking was even a law.
18
           So you're taking -- you're taking
19
behavior.  And I did introduce him to women, I did,
20
but not underage women.  I understand that there are
21
allegations.  I have read them about myself going to
22
schools.  I can categorically tell you that I have
23
never, in my life, gone to a school to pick up a
24
child.  Well, not for this purpose.  I mean, like my
25
stepchildren, and all, but okay.  Sorry, just --

Page 315
1
           TODD BLANCHE:  No, I understand.
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.  Thank you.  I
3
just want to be clear that I'm not trying to be cute
4
or anything.
5
           But -- and I did look for masseuses, I --
6
I did.  I went to spas and if I met somebody who said
7
she was a masseuse, I did not check their
8
credentials.  And of course, if she was attractive, I
9
did introduce her, yes.
10
           If I met friends who were interested, he
11
was constantly asking me for -- to meet new and
12
interesting people.  I did -- I did do that.
13
           At the time, I viewed it as -- well, first
14
of all, part of my job, I think, or part of my
15
responsibility, if you were, to introduce -- because
16
it wasn't just women.  If I met somebody who was
17
interesting, like Murray Gell-Mann or who I thought
18
he would like, I did that.  So it's not exclusively,
19
but he did.  And I did do that.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  So -- but then -- so I want
21
to layer on top of what you just said, what we talked
22
about yesterday more, but a little bit today already,
23
which is everybody that was around him besides you,
24
like his friends.
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Right.

Page 316
1
           TODD BLANCHE:  So I accept the lifestyle.
2
I've seen the photos, the fact that everybody is --
3
we're all going to go to the island for a couple of
4
days, or we're flying on a private plane and there's
5
beautiful women everywhere.
6
           Is there any -- I mean, do you, as you sit
7
here today, think that the people around him didn't
8
also -- weren't also of the same place where they
9
were also getting massages where there was sex going
10
on during them, or things like that?  And I'm
11
obviously asking this because that's what the --
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yeah.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- that's what everybody
14
has said.  And when you just described what it was
15
like, the very next step from that is everybody's
16
going to Vegas for the weekend, you know.  And so --
17
and so you -- it seems kind of far-fetched to say
18
that, yes, that was his lifestyle.
19
           But then when he's taking groups of folks
20
to the island or groups of folks to New Mexico or
21
whatever, that they're all, you know, going to church
22
in the morning while he's getting a massage.
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I hear you.  I was
24
there, though.  And --
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  Yeah.

Page 317
1
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- and you're talking
2
about very substantial people.  And you are
3
extrapolating because the narrative that started
4
in -- by the way, not until 2009, is when it really
5
started.
6
           So that narrative that was created and
7
then built upon, and it just mushroomed into what --
8
basically this is like a Salem witch trial.  People
9
have gone and lost their minds for this thing.  I
10
understand that.
11
           But the issue is, how do you satisfy a mob
12
who can't understand the lifestyle because it's like
13
P. Diddy in Redux on TV with Clintons and Trump.  I
14
mean, it's -- it's bananas.  And while some of it is
15
real, he did do those things.  I'm definitely not
16
disputing that.
17
           But this was a man, they didn't even
18
believe he had a real business.  I happen to believe
19
he did.  Did he grift?  I don't -- I don't know,
20
because I wasn't really in his business.  But this is
21
-- this is one man.
22
           He's not some -- they've made him into
23
this -- he's not that interesting.  He's a disgusting
24
guy who did terrible things to young kids.  You're
25
not going to hear me say what he did to people who

Page 318
1
are over the age 18.  I'm sorry.  I'm not going to go
2
there.  That's just not what I'm here to -- I mean, I
3
-- okay?
4
           But to suggest that Larry Summers or
5
Clinton would certainly go, oh my gosh, this is like
6
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
7
sex.  They're men that went and had a massage and
8
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
9
the room.  I cannot tell you if that happened.
10
           And if it did, not -- I never paid for
11
that.  Just so that we're clear.  Nobody ever said to
12
me, oh, you know, we had sexual intercourse and that
13
was a three, uh-uh (negative).  I'd be like, okay.
14
TMI, no, not my business.  You want to -- it's just
15
not.  And I didn't want to know.  Maybe there's that.
16
           But did I, like, think these guys were
17
coming for that?  I really don't.  If you met
18
Epstein, there is no way that this cast of
19
characters, of which it's extraordinary, and some are
20
in your cabinet, who you value as your coworkers, and
21
you know, would be with him if he was a creep or
22
because they wanted sexual favors.  A man wants
23
sexual favors, he will find that.  They didn't have
24
to come to Epstein for that.
25
           Now did some?  Okay.  I don't know.  I

Page 319
1
wasn't there.  I didn't see it.
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  So when's the last time you
3
think you were with Mr. Epstein when he got a
4
massage?
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I want to say 2007.
6
           TODD BLANCHE:  2007?
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  And the frequency at that
9
point, so 2007, is that when it was at its peak,
10
would you say?  Meaning the number of interactions he
11
was having daily with women and masseuses?
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I wasn't really in his
13
life.  I happened to be in the Caribbean in 2007.  I
14
was with Ted.
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And we -- I was still
17
speaking with Epstein, because I was still involved
18
in his -- you know, loosely with his -- the houses
19
and the staff and some of the billing.  And he -- and
20
I was going back from being with Ted in the Caribbean
21
to New York, and Epstein offered me a ride.  And so
22
Ted dropped me off in Saint Thomas, and I was on the
23
island, I believe, for one day and one night only.
24
           On that visit, I believe -- well, I know
25
he would have gotten a massage, but I have -- there

Page 320
1
were people there, but I did -- that were women.  And
2
I was --
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- just relieved not
5
to --
6
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- be leaving the next
8
day.
9
           TODD BLANCHE:  Let's take a break.
10
           SPENCER HORN:  Well, we're going to take a
11
break.  The time is 11:31.
12
        (Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.)
13
           SPENCER HORN:  We are resuming the audio
14
recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell, and the
15
time is 11:49 a.m.
16
           TODD BLANCHE:  All right.  I wanted to
17
follow up about former President Clinton's
18
relationship with Mr. Epstein, not you.
19
           Can you -- we touched on it, but can you
20
just to set the -- I have a couple questions about
21
it, but what's your understanding of their
22
relationship from what you observed?  Meaning former
23
President Clinton and Mr. Epstein.
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I saw them talk.  I
25
saw them sit down and have chats about, I don't know,

Page 321
1
because I wasn't either a party or didn't listen and
2
I know -- I would characterize, originally anyway,
3
Mr. Epstein's interest in him because obviously he's
4
the former president.
5
           But I never saw him -- other than that, I
6
saw them be friendly on the plane, but I never -- I
7
don't believe -- I don't recollect, anyway, ever
8
seeing them in any other context.
9
           I don't remember him at his house in New
10
York.  Like I said, I don't believe he ever went to
11
that island.  I think that was just a -- that was a
12
story that 
 did.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you know one way or the
14
other, whether their relationship continued without
15
you, like, when you kind of moved on past
16
Mr. Epstein?
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't believe so.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  Why do you say that you
19
don't believe so?
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Because I don't think
21
they had a relationship even when I was there.  I was
22
-- I -- President Clinton liked me, and we got along
23
terribly well.  But I never saw that warmth or that
24
-- that warmth or however you want to characterize
25
it, with Mr. Epstein and cert- -- so I didn't see
DOJ REDACTION

Page 322
1
that.  I didn't see any interest in -- I didn't see
2
President Clinton being interested in Epstein.  He
3
was just a rich guy with a plane.
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  When -- when the Southern
5
District of New York case kind of became public and
6
there was a search warrant of Mr. Epstein's house,
7
there was like a -- there was some sort of painting
8
or picture with Mr. Clinton in like a blue dress that
9
had been signed.
10
           Did you know -- do you know where he got
11
that picture or that painting?
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  The first I saw it was
13
in the press.
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  So you never observed that
15
in his --
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- brownstone?
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.  I thought it was
19
hideous.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  What's that again?
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I thought it was
22
hideous.
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  And -- but you had never --
24
so you don't know, sitting here today, where
25
Mr. Epstein got it?

Page 323
1
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  The circumstances in which
3
he got it?
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you know of any other
6
gifts or paraphernalia or art or pictures that former
7
President Clinton gave to Mr. Epstein?
8
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.  I mean, did he
9
maybe get him a gift?  I don't know.  I have no
10
knowledge of that.
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  And then going back to the
12
topic we were talking about before our last break.
13
           Well, when you said something yesterday at
14
the very beginning of our conversation that when you
15
first met Mr. Epstein and you ultimately have sex
16
with him, that he had -- I'll use the word erectile
17
dysfunction, but he had issues having sex?
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  That's what he told
19
me.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  That's what he told you?
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  And then over the
23
years, you said sometime in the '90s he started
24
taking testosterone?
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.  But I don't know

Page 324
1
if it was in the '90s.  I don't remember when he
2
started, but it wasn't -- he had patches --
3
testosterone patches --
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- dermal.
6
           TODD BLANCHE:  Like on his arm?
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
9
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And then he was
10
ridiculous, because you shouldn't take more than one.
11
But sometimes he had, like -- I'm like, what are you
12
doing?  It's like unhealthy.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  From what you
14
observed or saw or heard, did he continue to have
15
challenges sexually over the years or do you think
16
that whatever he told you -- whatever issue he told
17
you he had was fixed?
18
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I think it was a lie.
19
           TODD BLANCHE:  You think he was lying
20
about what?
21
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  About his erectile
22
dysfunction.
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  Oh, you mean you never --
24
you don't think he ever had any issues?  You think he
25
just told you that?

Page 325
1
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Right.  That is what I
2
believe today, yes.  But given -- if any of the
3
stories are true, even if he had erectile
4
dysfunction, the thing had a priapism, for Christ's
5
sake.
6
           TODD BLANCHE:  Well, that's -- that's one
7
of the reasons for my questions.  I mean, you're
8
right.  I mean -- and again, we're -- we've talked
9
about this a fair amount, but what did -- like the
10
stories of what masseuses, underage and overage have
11
said about him is, are, you know, and what he liked,
12
what he demanded that they do.  Whether it's watching
13
him masturbate or pinching his nipples, you know,
14
kind of things that are unusual.
15
           Do you believe that?  Like, do you -- from
16
what you saw, from what you observed, from what you
17
did when you were in a relationship with him, is that
18
true?
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I -- well, the bulk of
20
what I read, he did not have sex.  So that is
21
consistent with what he told me, actually.
22
           And his masturbating, that is also
23
consistent with what I knew myself.  And I'm going to
24
use a bad word for --
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  Please, you can use

Page 326
1
whatever words you need.  Yes.
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Blowjob.
3
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  He liked blowjobs.
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
6
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  That I did observe.
7
And he didn't seem to have any erectile dysfunction
8
for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have.  So when I
9
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
10
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not
11
his modus operandi, from my perspective.
12
           TODD BLANCHE:  But when you read about
13
blowjobs, that -- does that -- that would be
14
consistent with kind of --
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  That would be
16
consistent, as would masturbation, yes.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  Did you talk to masseuses
18
or women that either he was in a relationship with or
19
who asked you about working with him?  Did you tell
20
them, yes, he likes blowjobs, yes, he'll masturbate
21
in front of you?
22
           Like, did you have conversations with any
23
of those -- with women about what Mr. Epstein liked
24
or what would make him happy, or things like that?
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't have any

Page 327
1
memory of telling anybody about that.  I think I may
2
have joked like saying, oh my God, you know, like
3
from a Sex and the City scene that, you know, he's --
4
but not -- I never instruct -- the question you're
5
asking me, sorry, let's just be clear.
6
           Did I ever instruct anyone how to
7
pleasure, Mr. Epstein, your question?  No.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  And you said this earlier,
9
but I want to just -- you kind of said it on your
10
own.  I want to ask the question, just so I'll make
11
sure that there's no confusion.
12
           When -- when you over the years --
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Sorry, can I just --
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- yeah.  Of course.  Yeah,
15
yeah, please.
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Okay.  Right.  I just
17
want to say, the idea that I would have to explain to
18
a woman how to satisfy Mr. Epstein is patently
19
absurd, because he clearly was able to explain
20
himself.
21
           He didn't need an interlocutor to explain
22
what he liked.  He's been doing this obviously or
23
this -- some version of this story his whole life and
24
did not require any help from me.
25
           TODD BLANCHE:  Then -- so did you ever

Page 328
1
observe him having sex with a masseuse?  Regular
2
intercourse, not a blowjob, nothing else, where you
3
either walked in or you were in the room?
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I never saw him have
5
sex with any person.
6
           TODD BLANCHE:  And so how about oral sex?
7
Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
8
whether you were in the room or walked in, or --
9
                   GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I never saw
10
anyone give Epstein a blowjob.  No.
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  But you said earlier you
12
did see him masturbating in front of masseuses.
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't know if I said
14
that.  I don't know --
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  Sorry.  I don't
16
want --
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- if I said that.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  Let me ask you a question.
19
Sorry.
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I don't know for sure
21
I said that.
22
           TODD BLANCHE:  No, that's fair.  That's
23
fair.
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I said I saw him --
25
I'm sure I saw him in a -- what some people could

Page 329
1
define as sexual contact.  Because if somebody could
2
not have their clothes or topless, I would say maybe,
3
I could say that.
4
           If I saw him having -- masturbating when
5
someone was there, I don't recall that, I don't have
6
a specific memory of it.  I'm sorry.
7
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
8
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  But no, I'm not --
9
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
10
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  -- I didn't say that.
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  I understand, that's
12
fair.  Sorry.  I'm not ---
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  That's okay.
14
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- certainly not trying to
15
put words in your mouth.
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No, no.  That's --
17
absolutely no.  That's fine.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  So -- and you said, I think
19
in passing -- maybe not in passing.  I'm sorry.
20
           About -- about, you know, whether other
21
people who travel with him would get massages or --
22
so that would -- when I say that I'm referring mostly
23
to the island or, potentially, New Mexico.  But also
24
his Palm Beach residence or even in New York.
25
           Do you know of -- do you have a list of

Page 330
1
names in your head or names that come to mind of
2
people that you know did get massages when they were
3
with Mr. Epstein?
4
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No, there's no list.
5
There's no list of people getting massages.  I don't
6
have -- I can barely recall all the people.  I can
7
barely recall.  I struggle to recall actual people
8
that I met.  And I may have met a long time that I
9
had even forgotten that -- about Mr. Kennedy, or I
10
probably brought it up yesterday.  It just came to my
11
mind now.
12
           So I don't have, and there's no list.
13
There was never a list.  There was no -- or certainly
14
none that I ever saw.  None I ever heard of, none
15
that I ever witnessed, none that I -- there's no
16
list.  Has never been a list.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  And you never heard
18
Mr. Epstein talk about such a list?
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Never.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  And you never heard
21
Mr. Epstein suggest that he had some sort of control
22
over somebody because of what he knew about what they
23
had done or had photos of him or anything?
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I never heard him --
25
no, I never heard him ask questions about that.  I

Page 331
1
never heard him.  So I've been present many times
2
with masseuses.  I never -- who presumably could or
3
maybe did massage somebody, I'm not saying whether
4
they did or not just (indiscernible).
5
           I never heard him ask any question of any
6
masseuse who may have given a massage to a friend
7
that was on the island, or in Palm Beach or anywhere
8
else for that, any details about that massage.  Like,
9
does he have a funky foot?  No, I never heard that
10
because it -- weird.
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  And I think at one of the
12
breaks today, your lawyer may have showed you
13
something that just came out in the paper, I think
14
this morning or last night.  A letter that you --
15
that is attributed to you, associated with this
16
birthday book from 2003 that we talked about
17
yesterday.
18
           Is -- did you see that letter.
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I did see the letter.
20
           TODD BLANCHE:  Is that, in fact -- look
21
like your handwriting or something you wrote?
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  So, I don't remember
23
the letter.
24
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  But it does look like

Page 332
1
my handwriting.  And it does look like my name.  And
2
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
3
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
4
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you remember what the
5
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
6
looked like?  Like how it was put together?
7
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I do.
8
           TODD BLANCHE:  What do you remember about
9
it?
10
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I remember it.  It was
11
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big.
12
It was big.  Right like --
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  So you're saying it looks
14
like -- it's like over 12 inches, 14, 15 inches?
15
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.  It was like sort
16
of like a folio size, I guess, or something like
17
that.  And like this.  And it was brown and thick,
18
about this thick.
19
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
20
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And --
21
           TODD BLANCHE:  So just -- so you -- so I
22
understand --
23
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  On heavy stock paper.
24
           TODD BLANCHE:  Heavy stock paper, like 14
25
inches high?

Page 333
1
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  That's about right.
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  And then around like --
3
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  A4.  A4.  We had A4,
4
because it was done on heavy stock paper, but I can't
5
remember if it was folio size paper, or it could have
6
just been A4.
7
           TODD BLANCHE:  Oh I see.  So it could have
8
just been letter size, or it might have been legal
9
size --
10
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
11
           TODD BLANCHE:  -- heavy stock paper.
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Yes.
13
           TODD BLANCHE:  And the -- so the folks
14
that submitted letters were given the stock paper or
15
how were the letters -- or did you, like, glue or
16
something the letters to the stock paper?
17
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Every which way.  Some
18
were given the paper and they did their own thing.
19
Some would send me some scrap of paper and I would
20
put it on the thing.  Some I didn't get because they
21
went straight to Epstein, and I was just told to put
22
them in, like I said.
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  And how was it bound?
24
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  It went to a
25
professional binder, who did it like a book that

Page 334
1
you'd see in the library.
2
           TODD BLANCHE:  So like the glue that keeps
3
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
4
it was bound that way?
5
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Like a -- I believe
6
so.  I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
7
remember.  I mean, it was professionally done by a
8
professional bookbinder.
9
           TODD BLANCHE:  And then after you
10
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
11
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did
12
he keep it somewhere in particular?
13
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  It was in his bookcase
14
in 71st Street.
15
           TODD BLANCHE:  In Manhattan?
16
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  In Manhattan.
17
           TODD BLANCHE:  And did you see it over the
18
years until you stopped going to the brownstone?
19
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I saw it -- I know I
20
did see it, because it was right behind his desk.
21
And after I stopped going, I don't know what happened
22
to it.
23
           TODD BLANCHE:  Do you know -- do you
24
remember being told or knowing where the book is now?
25
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No.  But I -- when I

Page 335
1
received in discovery those pages, I assumed that it
2
had been found when either New York or the island was
3
searched, and I assumed that the Southern District of
4
New York had it.
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  But I think you said
6
yesterday.  But just to go over it again, in case you
7
remember anything differently.  You recall seeing
8
some of the letters in discovery.
9
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  I do.
10
           TODD BLANCHE:  But you don't recall kind
11
of seeing the leather book, start to finish?
12
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  No, but remember, I
13
didn't see all discovery because they were very
14
clever about, you know, I didn't receive all
15
discovery, period.  And in fact, very important items
16
were not given to me at all, including witness
17
testimony from grand jury.
18
           TODD BLANCHE:  So whether -- so you don't
19
know one way or the other, whether it was part of
20
discovery, you just know that you didn't get it.  It
21
wasn't part of the discovery that was given to you?
22
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  Correct.  But there's
23
a -- I am absolutely sure that the Southern District
24
of New York hid very important pieces of evidence
25
from me.

Page 336
1
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.
2
           GHISLAINE MAXWELL:  And I assumed that
3
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
4
that's what it is.  If it's true.
5
           TODD BLANCHE:  Okay.  So I've -- just so I
6
put -- I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
7
to your lawyer about it.  I said to you yesterday
8
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
9
was -- was exactly what we did, which is to have a
10
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
11
           And I think it's very challenging to talk
12
about everything we talked about.  And, you know, in
13
one and a half days or in just a period of hours.  So
14
I'll talk to Mr. Markus about kind of what we're
15
going to do next, if anything.
16
           There's no -- and I don't -- I'm not being
17
coy or -- I just -- I don't know yet.  I don't know.
18
So we -- I have a lot of -- we have some work to do.
19
We'll do it with your lawyers to the extent we have
20
questions or follow-up.
21
           And this has been very helpful.  I think
22
it's -- it was you, you know, who kind of said you
23
wanted to talk, but we gladly accepted it.  So I do
24
appreciate you being willing to meet with us.  And I
25
expect that we'll be in touch soon.  All right.

Page 337
1
Yeah.
2
           SPENCER HORN:  This concludes the recorded
3
proffer interview of Ms. Maxwell.  The time is
4
12:05 p.m., on Friday, July 25th.
5
           (Interview concluded at 12:05 p.m.)
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Page 338
1
           CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION
2
3
           I, Cathy M. Ayotte, do hereby certify that
4
the provided audio recording media was transcribed by
5
me or reduced to typewriting under my supervision,
6
that said transcript is a true transcription of the
7
audio recording; that I am neither counsel for,
8
related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the
9
action involved in these proceedings; and, further,
10
that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney
11
or counsel employed by the parties thereto, nor
12
financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of
13
the action.
14
           __________________________________________
           Cathy M. Ayotte, OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPTIONIST
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Page 1
A
245:13
241:20 247:19
225:12 228:21
ability
accused
249:10 253:20
229:18 241:15
244:6
221:11 309:7
271:13 308:10
242:9 243:5 249:7
able
Ace
312:7 334:9,10,21
252:20 253:4,17,19
251:20 266:15
242:25
again
253:21 254:1,21,22
278:10 281:23
Acting
227:20,21 240:20
254:23 255:1,14,25
282:12 312:15
216:7
250:21 257:1 259:5
257:5 261:11 264:3
327:19
action
264:13 289:6 294:6
266:16 277:1,14,14
absolutely
338:9,13
294:11 295:5
279:8 280:6 282:13
218:9 223:24 244:25
actively
322:20 325:8 335:6
282:14 283:5,6,24
265:11 293:6,25
230:14
against
285:16,21 287:6,18
294:1 309:19 314:8
activity
299:17
290:23 294:15
329:17 335:23
291:7 306:19
age
299:14 302:19,20
absurd
actors
245:5 289:7,20,25
304:18 309:10
265:21 327:19
268:8
291:13,25 298:24
310:13 314:25
abuse
acts
318:1
315:14 316:3,21
223:18
308:1
Agent
320:16 326:9 330:6
abused
actual
216:9 217:5
332:3 335:13,14,16
291:24 298:24
262:5 330:7
aggressive
336:25
accept
actually
288:1,3
allegation
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224:5 225:8,23 230:7
ago
219:4 223:19 276:8
316:1
237:22 241:8 247:6
243:14,16
301:20 302:6
accepted
255:12,25 273:15
agree
309:14
336:23
275:6 279:22
264:6 289:2,10 290:9
allegations
access
292:22 294:19
290:10 298:22
230:4 300:7,22 301:7
257:22 282:12,17
300:23 303:6
299:16 310:12
301:17 314:21
314:14 325:21
313:24
326:9
accompany
256:23
additional
agreement
alleged
account
218:20 219:1
217:7,12 320:14
294:3
222:3 223:4 227:14
address
ahead
allowed
228:23 232:8,11,25
219:5 289:15 292:22
225:21 268:22
258:6
accountants
302:5
AIDS
all-time
221:20
adds
255:25 256:1
284:10
accounts
234:6
Air
almost
221:19,20,22 222:20
admitted
234:25
281:25,25
223:4 226:14 229:4
222:13
Alamos
along
234:9 282:9
adult
279:7
224:2 232:2 267:11
accurate
293:14
Albany
280:16 305:18
222:23 250:8 293:23
adults
283:18 284:8
321:22
294:4
298:11
Alessi
already
accurately
affirmatively
308:24
224:11 242:22
296:6
220:2
Alexander
257:16 278:24
accusation
Africa
273:4,6
315:22
223:12
251:7 255:11,14
all
also
accusations
268:16,18
217:13 221:2,25
...

Page 2
Page 2
267:17 268:23
269:13 270:25
283:5 294:21
295:10 298:19
316:8,8,9 325:22
329:23
always
224:15 228:24 256:2
256:19 264:6 267:7
267:15 310:9,9
313:6,15
am
221:6 240:1 252:4
265:21 291:4
300:15 314:8
335:23 338:7,10
amazing
251:9
America
242:21 248:3,14
amount
325:9
amounts
232:4
an
222:2 223:16 225:24
226:6 227:13 228:5
228:23,24 234:21
236:2 241:4 245:14
250:5 251:8,10
253:7 258:23
259:10 262:11
265:16,18,23
273:13,14 275:23
276:1,7 279:5 280:2
281:24 282:17
287:22 288:2
293:14 294:9,20
299:7 301:19 304:9
308:23,25 310:11
312:7 327:21
analysis
314:6
anchor
238:20,20
Andrew
238:5 239:5
Angeles
258:19
angle
277:5
announced
294:16
annoying
264:4 311:17
another
227:8 233:18 236:10
238:5 246:7 271:21
272:14 276:10
299:10
answer
223:8 231:16 238:5
250:5 260:20
312:21
any
224:24 231:14,23
232:8,24,25 233:7
234:10,18 239:9
244:5,6,13 245:4,5
245:15 250:4 251:2
251:12 257:18
260:2,9,16 264:24
265:14 266:3,9
269:16 270:3,17
272:11,13 274:10
277:14 282:3
287:12,12,14,16
291:24 292:2,16
300:20 303:25
304:5 308:9 309:16
316:6 321:8 322:1
323:5 324:24 325:2
326:7,22,25 327:24
328:5 331:5,5,8
338:8,10
anybody
219:2,11 233:7 287:9
287:11,17 289:24
290:19 301:12
309:6,21 327:1
anyone
219:8 264:23 279:6
289:24 327:6
328:10
anything
218:11,15,21,22
238:25 244:5,14,17
245:13 253:18
257:15 278:8 282:4
282:7 287:25 288:1
288:5,9,10,12
289:20 290:19
299:14 308:13
315:4 330:23 335:7
336:15
anyway
233:1 255:10 261:23
279:8 282:15
290:24 321:2,7
anywhere
331:7
APPEARANCES
216:4
Apple
228:9,9,10
apply
218:7
appreciate
244:2 336:24
approximate
227:19
approximately
241:4 247:9
are
217:6,9 218:1 228:8
228:8,8 241:11,12
241:14 242:16
252:24 271:12
272:14 273:10
274:10,13 275:1
280:6 284:2 285:19
289:20 296:19,19
296:20 300:21,21
301:7 312:10
313:15 314:20
317:2 318:1,19
320:13 324:11
325:3,11,14
area
277:12 278:4,8 279:2
284:11 289:2
areas
289:19 291:9,10
295:7
arm
324:6
around
220:18,19 234:6
237:1 251:15
263:23 277:1
283:24 284:2,3,5
285:22 287:1
297:25 311:22
312:22 313:6,15
315:23...

Page 3
Page 3
292:12,12 296:9,9
297:25,25 301:2,3
301:18 308:15,15
309:6,11,15,17,21
310:21,25 311:6
313:17,17 315:13
316:6 318:20
326:16 329:1 332:5
336:6
aside
218:20 232:13
236:25 269:15
286:18 302:11,14
ask
218:10 220:7 223:10
235:17 251:16
262:16 268:9
274:14 287:18
303:11 327:10
328:18 330:25
331:5
asked
219:3,13 239:4,23
251:5,17 252:8
271:19 274:15
282:19 326:19
asking
251:15 279:20
306:18 315:11
316:11 327:5
assaulted
298:11
assistant
217:5 311:25
assistants
312:3
Associate
216:7
associated
260:10 278:1 312:5
331:15
association
263:13
associations
277:17
assumed
335:1,3 336:2
Aston
226:25
astonishing
282:3
at
219:4,22,23 220:19
221:6,7 222:22
226:14 233:7 236:2
237:4,4,5 239:13,22
242:8,24 246:15
254:1,24 255:12,16
258:23 262:2,5
264:3 273:13,13,14
273:16 277:7
279:10 280:12
282:16 284:6
285:18 286:10,18
286:19 290:23
292:11 294:3,3,15
294:24 295:1 296:1
296:3,8,15 298:12
298:20 301:1 303:4
306:20 308:21
309:7,10,16 310:1
310:15,16,19
311:24 313:5,10
315:13 319:8,9
320:12 321:9
323:13 331:11
332:3 335:16 337:5
ate
232:3
attorney
216:6,8 338:10
attractive
315:8
attributed
331:15
audio
320:13 338:4,7
aware
265:9 300:16,18,23
301:23
Ayotte
338:3,14
a.m
217:4 285:18 320:12
320:12,15
A4
333:3,3,3,6
B
baby
303:7
back
223:3 228:22 229:6
241:7 250:21 259:8
260:3 275:25
279:23 294:23
302:15,24 314:3
319:20 323:11
bad
325:24
bananas
317:14
Band
248:22 250:18
bank
282:14
banker
227:10
banking
220:21 227:11,22
bar
301:19
barely
330:6,7
based
223:12
basic
303:11
basically
251:17 317:8
basis
306:7
be
219:19 221:20
222:23,24 224:20
224:21 225:5 226:6
227:22,23 229:22
231:17 232:18
233:18 235:24
236:8 238:1 245:9
245:14 247:12
250:8 251:9 252:9
253:18 256:9
257:15 259:9
261:21 265:12
266:15 277:15
282:7,12 284:13
287:10,10,17,20
288:23 289:11
290:7,20 291:4,18
294:15,20 295:10
297:6,14 298:8
301:23 305:24
306:9,13 307:6,7,7
307:8,9,9,22,22
308:25 309:4 310:3
310:11,22 312:6,16
315:3,3 318:13,21
319:13 320:7 321:6
326:13,15 327:5
332:2 336:3,25
Beach
225:23 239:13 266:7
270...

Page 4
Page 4
253:18 254:1,25
257:4 258:6 260:20
261:21 262:7
265:12,15 266:14
275:6 279:16 284:1
284:16 285:9
289:25 290:17,21
291:23 292:4
293:15,18 296:10
296:18 297:13,18
297:24 300:3 301:5
305:23 306:12
311:4,8 313:1,1
314:6,7 315:15
316:11 317:3,12,20
318:22 319:17
321:1,3,20 324:10
326:10 327:19
329:1 330:22
331:10 333:4,20
334:20 335:13
336:3
become
224:16 278:10
279:22
becomes
312:9
been
224:17 225:2 231:9
231:11 241:17
243:11 251:4 253:7
261:8,12,15,22
265:15 273:14
283:23 284:4 285:9
286:19,20 288:22
291:11 305:14
307:6 310:13,20,23
314:15 322:9
327:22 330:16
331:1 333:6,8,8
335:2 336:21
before
217:24 228:10 241:9
241:13,18,21
242:21 243:6
264:15 269:20
271:1 275:8 279:3
280:23 285:1
323:12
begin
301:17
beginning
260:21 262:3 300:4
323:14
behave
311:1
behavior
295:17 301:18
312:25 313:19,21
314:1,11,19
behind
277:24 334:20
being
220:17,22 231:25
232:13 244:14
252:19 253:1
258:11 289:13
311:2,7 319:20
322:2 332:11
334:24 336:16,24
belief
221:11
believe
219:1 220:5,11 221:9
226:22 230:8,12
232:7 233:1 234:10
237:9,12,21 240:10
251:2 252:13 261:7
265:13,15 270:10
270:11 278:7 281:6
282:4 285:9 292:18
292:23 293:10,15
294:15 298:23
309:9 314:13
317:18,18 319:23
319:24 321:7,10,17
321:19 325:2,15
334:5
believed
280:3 303:4,5,7
belittling
225:3
benefit
224:10 234:9
besides
224:11 257:10 269:5
315:23
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282:21
better
220:17
between
235:8 287:6 290:1
313:21
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237:3 281:19 289:4
298:16,19 312:3
big
231:12 251:7 332:11
332:12
bigger
309:25
biggest
233:21 279:14 280:5
283:22
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288:24
Bill
228:11
billing
319:19
binder
333:25
birthday
236:4,13 294:10,21
331:16 332:5
bit
220:15 268:24
285:23 309:25
315:22 336:6
block
280:7
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326:2 328:2,10
blowjobs
326:4,8,13,20
blue
322:8
blur
253:24 272:16
blush
314:11
Bobby
240:18,19,21,22
242:11 243:8
245:17 246:1
Bobby's
241:8
body
318:6
bone
241:1
bonus
224:9
book
331:16 332:5 333:25
334:3,11,24 335:11
bookbinder
334:8
bookcase
334:13
bore
252:23
boss
284:10
Boston
271:20
both
259:24 266:25 272:4
275:4
bottom
28...

Page 5
Page 5
branching
252:18
Branson
276:11,15
Branson's
276:7,9
break
281:15 285:14,17,19
320:9,11,12 323:12
breaks
218:7 331:12
Brin
236:2
bring
264:15
British
276:3
broad
289:11
broadest
286:15 289:12 294:7
broker
227:11
brother
236:21,21,23 237:22
237:24 238:12,12
239:2 242:8
brought
225:5,5 314:12
330:10
brown
332:17
brownstone
322:17 334:18
build
283:16
built
283:20,21,24 317:7
bulk
325:19
bunch
236:5 275:18
business
225:10 226:8 228:24
243:6 260:16 272:4
272:7 279:25 280:2
281:18 282:22,24
283:13,16 284:14
284:14,17 317:18
317:20 318:14
businesses
224:23 225:8 232:1
252:20 283:12
285:5
businessmen
282:16 284:11
butler
308:24
buy
232:20 281:23
by
221:20 223:5,12,17
233:7 234:7 235:9
257:17 286:25
287:7,9 291:24
294:11 298:24
305:11 317:4 334:7
338:4,8,11
C
cabinet
318:20
calendar
300:2
caliber
313:3
California
301:19
call
242:17 296:9 301:23
called
225:25 236:11 279:6
294:16
calling
332:5
came
226:1 232:8 244:8
259:6,15 267:11
276:15 277:5 278:7
278:21 279:15,17
282:4 285:1 296:10
296:25 297:3,12
309:8 310:17
330:10 331:13
Campbell
269:18,23 270:2,7
can
217:15 222:20,21
225:19,20 226:25
227:22,23 234:2
244:7 247:12
249:20 253:24
254:24 260:19
262:18,18 263:10
265:12,25 275:6
277:15 279:9
289:11,11 290:22
291:6 292:2 299:18
299:23 301:1 303:8
303:11 313:11
314:22 320:19,19
325:25 327:13
330:6,6
cannot
318:9
can't
222:6 226:2 239:20
247:10 249:7,21
254:7 256:11
262:24 265:5 273:1
273:2 284:15
301:13 304:15,16
304:16 317:12
333:4
car
234:20
card
294:10,21
care
224:3 264:7 282:11
Caribbean
236:11 237:1 276:2,2
319:13,20
carry
266:16
cars
234:14 254:2
case
322:5 335:6
cases
226:18
cast
318:18
casting
291:2
catch
264:5
categorical
290:20
categorically
235:11,12 292:2
306:24 307:1
314:22
Cathy
338:3,14
celebrate
236:12
center
283:18
centered
277:1
central
263:21
cert
321:25
certain
278:1,13 308:1
certainly
222:25 226:3 239:1
251:6 270:10 279:2
284:12 290:20
291:11 292:11
298:20,23 301:13
305:13,15 318:5
329:14 330:13
CERTIFICATE
338:1
certify
338:3
CGI
264:11
chall...

Page 6
Page 6
324:15
challenging
326:10 336:11
change
295:11
changed
295:1,7 308:7
changing
308:8
Chappaqua
259:19 260:4
characterization
221:3 267:14 287:5
296:22
characterize
239:21 255:4 276:11
283:17 287:13
288:1,12 289:18
295:13 309:6,17
321:2,24
characterized
287:7 301:2
characters
318:19
charge
217:6 228:13
charged
312:10 314:15
chats
320:25
check
231:14 232:23 315:7
checks
306:16
Cheryl
246:21
chicken
278:18,20
child
273:2 283:8,9 292:2
293:14 308:20
309:6,17,21,22
314:24
children
283:6,8 295:11
309:20
Chris
238:14,17,18,20
239:5 268:11
Christopher
238:15,16
Christ's
325:4
chunks
231:12
church
316:21
circumstances
219:7 247:25 298:21
323:2
City
313:12 327:3
civil
294:8 296:16
clad
288:22
claims
298:1
clarify
229:15,16
clarity
219:1
clear
245:3 248:11 295:10
297:11 302:8 315:3
318:11 327:5
clearly
327:19
Cleveland
252:22
clever
335:14
clients
281:7 312:13
Clinic
252:22
Clint
259:15
Clinton
247:3,20 248:6,18,24
249:17 252:5 253:8
254:19 257:11
258:10,16 259:1,1
259:17,24,24
260:10,21 261:4
262:8 263:16
264:18 265:4,10
266:3,11 268:20
269:21 318:5
320:23 321:22
322:2,8 323:7
Clintons
260:17 263:14
317:13
Clinton's
249:10 320:17
close
238:24 267:18
closest
229:17
clothed
289:3
clothes
329:2
club
284:9,9
Coast
259:11
coercive
289:17
cognition
277:13
coherent
218:10
collected
223:13
college
291:16
Columbus
283:19
come
218:25 227:1 233:19
234:20 263:1,2,9
274:9,11 277:14
279:10 281:3 294:8
301:6 303:1,19,22
309:3,13,19 318:24
330:1
comes
302:17
comfortable
291:3
coming
222:5,14 224:24
232:11 260:3 280:6
292:17 309:17,25
311:12 318:17
communicated
260:3
communicating
237:15
company
230:1
compare
225:20
completely
235:11
complex
283:10
component
277:9
computer
279:11
conceal
230:15
conceive
304:15,16
concluded
337:5
concludes
337:2
concur
313:23
conduct
286:2,14 288:16,18
288:21 308:15
confident
301:1
confirm
254:25
confusing
218:11
confusion
327:11

Page 7
Page 7
connections
243:5
consensual
289:15
consent
289:6,7
considered
295:16
consistent
325:21,23 326:14,16
constantly
313:14 315:11
contact
289:10 329:1
contain
283:11
contained
221:12
contemporaneously
222:1 230:8 296:9
contestation
298:17
context
260:25 261:1 274:17
307:24 313:19
321:8
continue
245:17 324:14
continued
246:1 321:14
continuing
218:5 280:22
contracts
283:3
control
222:7,9 232:8 330:21
controlled
221:20 223:4
conversation
283:21 323:14
336:10
conversations
226:15 262:6 291:12
291:14,15 326:22
converted
225:25
cornered
275:24
correct
235:13 256:24
289:22 292:23
335:22
could
220:8 222:24 223:18
227:6 231:9,11
236:8 251:21 253:1
256:9 260:6,6 261:8
262:8 264:5 282:11
282:12 288:20,21
296:2,17 297:7
298:3 307:8,9,9,22
307:23 309:13
314:15 328:25
329:1,3 331:2 332:2
333:5,7
couldn't
219:2,8 263:6 285:9
311:3 312:6
Council
242:24 282:16
counsel
338:7,11
count
253:14
country
284:9
couple
235:16 237:2 286:3
316:3 320:20
course
224:18 246:12 251:7
284:15 303:10
315:8 327:14
covert
313:18
coworkers
318:20
coy
336:17
co-founder
236:3
crazy
246:13
create
283:9
created
317:6
credentials
315:8
creep
318:21
creepy
310:17,21,23 311:1
criminal
286:2 295:16 313:19
313:21
cross
279:22
cultural
314:4,5
Cuomo
238:5,7,16,20 239:5
239:5
curious
281:22
cute
315:3
D
dad
228:22
daily
319:11
Dakotas
241:2
date
216:2 241:4 249:19
249:20 275:6 311:9
dated
275:8
dates
243:21,23 247:8,11
dating
242:8
David
216:13 217:21
221:15 222:7
228:13,18 231:18
247:9 249:22,25
285:15 299:13,21
303:8,11,14,17,23
304:2,4,9,13,18,20
Davos
261:12,13,16,21
262:3,3,5 264:18
265:3
day
227:12,13 275:25
286:11 291:17
297:22 310:6
311:12 319:23
320:8
days
236:14 237:2 286:11
306:8,9 310:7 316:4
336:13
deal
225:9 290:12,13,21
299:18
dealings
260:10
deals
225:15
dealt
282:10
defend
291:5
define
286:15 288:2,20
289:24 310:21
329:1
defined
289:12 311:6
defining
289:12
definitely
218:12 219:21
247:23 295:2
317:15
definition
294:11
definitively
222:22
degrees

Page 8
Page 8
299:3
demanded
325:12
Department
216:1
deposition
296:17
depositions
291:11
Deputy
216:6,7,10
dermal
324:5
describe
254:8,16 262:5 310:4
313:11
described
231:22 257:10
258:11 290:24,25
309:11 313:13
316:14
describing
256:7
description
297:7
designed
283:17
desire
224:20
desk
334:20
detail
257:8 283:2
details
331:8
developing
277:25
deviant
310:3
Diddy
317:13
didn't
219:6,19 224:1 225:9
226:7 228:10 229:3
229:22 231:13
232:16 243:3 245:3
246:14,17 250:14
255:17 258:6
262:20 264:8,21
267:4 269:11
275:13 281:7 282:3
285:10 286:5,7
287:10 288:10,11
293:21 297:24
301:3,9,13,22
302:24 305:16
309:3,20,21 311:23
312:1 314:1 316:7
317:17 318:15,23
319:1 321:1,25
322:1,1 326:7,8
327:21 329:10
333:20 335:13,14
335:20
Diego
216:7
difference
313:21
different
219:16 223:11 245:9
256:23 258:10,11
265:18 291:23
295:19 308:14
311:11
differential
290:1
differently
335:7
difficult
311:17
dinner
258:24 262:7
dinners
277:7,10
dinosaur
241:1
discoveries
280:5
discovery
230:13,17 237:15,20
257:20 267:24
268:6 335:1,8,13,15
335:20,21
discuss
277:11,12 304:5
discussed
245:14
discussing
313:20
discussion
218:6 299:1
disgusting
317:23
dispute
221:3,8 233:7 300:7
disputing
223:1 317:16
distinct
289:19
distinction
290:17
distressed
287:14
District
312:10 322:5 335:3
335:23
divide
291:8
document
217:14
does
226:20,23 233:4
240:5 253:24
284:12 286:22
290:2 326:13 331:9
331:25 332:1
doesn't
312:6,15
doing
222:4 227:16 228:6
229:3 245:4 254:17
255:19 278:24
293:17,18 294:13
324:12 327:22
dollars
223:14 224:9 226:12
229:9 230:24
donate
278:11
done
280:22 292:9 304:14
304:17 309:23
330:23 333:4 334:7
door
299:4
doors
227:1
doubt
240:1
Doug
248:22 250:18,19,20
250:25 254:19
255:6
down
220:12 313:3 314:11
320:25
dozens
289:8,9
drag
311:17
dress
322:8
driving
260:3
dropped
319:22
Duchess
266:19
duress
287:12
during
288:16,19 295:19
302:16 304:22
305:18 308:14
316:10
dysfunction
323:17 324:22 325:4
326:7
E
E
217:1,1
each
302:6

Page 9
Page 9
earlier
237:6 327:8 328:11
early
241:6,7 247:12
271:12 280:22
299:12 300:25
easier
261:9
easiest
218:14
East
259:10
Eastern
280:7
effort
263:19
egg
278:21
egregious
299:5
Egypt
256:4
either
220:4 225:7 232:25
244:21 258:5 260:2
273:13 274:4,9
288:15 289:3 293:7
294:19 296:4 305:6
306:14 309:4 321:1
326:18 328:3 335:2
elevate
264:24
Elizabeth
274:20 275:8
Elon
235:19
else
224:7 232:21 248:21
255:18 276:23
297:12 301:14
305:21 307:9 308:8
328:2 331:8 336:3
email
237:15
embezzlement
230:3
employed
338:8,11
employee
338:10
employer
254:15
enable
225:13
encompass
295:11,16
end
254:1
ended
255:19
ending
220:19
engage
288:18
engaged
289:10
England
267:19 292:4
enormous
283:22 284:5
entering
308:20
enthusiastic
262:10
entire
287:15 293:22
296:21
entirety
283:13
entities
221:23,25
entity
222:3 235:1
Ep
281:17
Epstein's
239:10 245:16
251:21 256:19
257:1,12 266:3
270:3 271:19
272:10 274:2
276:15 281:18
297:3 321:3 322:6
erectile
323:16 324:21 325:3
326:7
especially
288:23 313:9,24
established
243:1
estate
225:23,24,25 226:1
Europe
255:13
Eva
243:4 303:4
evasive
253:18
even
221:10,18,22,24
230:9,19 233:7
234:9 236:6 239:20
244:3 249:7 251:23
251:25 252:5 258:2
260:6 265:24
266:15,15 273:8
288:24 292:9,11
300:22 301:9 303:5
304:15,16 308:2
314:17 317:17
321:21 325:3
329:24 330:9
event
236:2 237:9 258:23
273:13,14
eventually
263:2 295:22
ever
221:11 236:23
239:19 244:20
245:4 258:25
260:12,16 265:10
266:2,11 270:3
272:10 274:1,4
276:15 279:14
281:21 283:23
303:14,23 304:5,5,9
304:21 305:4,25
308:20 309:5
318:11 321:7,10
324:24 327:6,25
328:7 330:14,14,15
every
249:7 282:10,14
283:8 310:6 311:12
333:17
everybody
297:12,25 315:23
316:2,13
everybody's
316:15
everyone
242:13 246:8
everything
222:19 227:13
242:14 267:11
294:2 313:9 336:12
everywhere
224:21 310:7 316:5
evidence
222:13 223:12
230:19 235:4
299:16 309:16
335:24
exact
241:4 257:2
exactly
217:14,25 218:3
219:15 336:9
example
222:14 226:6 227:7,8
228:5 234:25
291:14
except
297:21 313:18
excited
273:9
exclusivel...

Page 10
Page 10
306:8
experience
297:13
explain
222:24 226:21
282:21 327:17,19
327:21
explained
242:15 297:22
explaining
287:3
expressed
224:20
extent
277:20 336:19
extraordinary
223:16 251:11
253:23 254:1
282:18 318:19
extrapolating
317:3
extreme
299:10,10
ex-husband
267:3
ex-president
251:13 252:12
259:15 265:23
F
fact
251:24 291:15,16
312:7 316:2 331:20
335:15
fair
296:7,13 312:2 325:9
328:22,23 329:12
fairly
301:1
false
220:3 235:11,13
297:6,14 301:2
family
228:12,22 229:23
279:17
famous
279:7,8
fancy
242:17,19
fantastic
251:13
far
233:1 236:17,18
245:18 281:19
308:15
far-fetched
316:17
father
279:16,20
father's
230:1
favors
303:25 304:6 318:22
318:23
FBI
216:9 217:6 226:14
Fe
280:8,12
feel
219:19 291:3
feeling
256:10
feet
287:19,21 305:12,15
307:8,9,15
Fekkai
274:23
felt
219:5 267:12,13,15
female
267:22
fence
313:25
Ferguson
266:20
few
239:1,2 243:17,18
253:25 259:19
fill
258:3
finance
228:24 252:25
financed
225:11 226:19
financial
220:16 224:10
226:13 283:11
financially
224:16 338:12
financier
275:24 282:11
find
227:22 232:24
263:10 298:12
318:23 326:10
fine
246:6 329:17
fingertips
254:24
finish
335:11
first
221:2 225:7,9,10
236:16 252:11,11
252:21 253:6
255:11 278:21,24
295:7 296:12 297:3
297:7 301:23
315:13 322:12
323:15
fixation
312:17
fixed
324:17
flat
245:15 266:12
flew
265:21 310:8 312:13
flight
258:4 259:6 268:16
268:17 269:5,14,15
flights
223:25 251:4 272:13
272:15
flip
227:6
flippant
260:6
flipped
226:4
Florida
295:20 312:8
flying
239:10 240:15
265:23 316:4
focus
282:22 286:1
folio
332:16 333:5
folks
217:25 218:4 240:11
254:19 257:12
268:9 274:13 312:3
316:19,20 333:13
follow
218:21 320:17
follow-up
336:20
food
224:2
foot
331:9
for
216:5,12 217:6,13
219:1 220:17,18
221:1,12,13 222:13
222:19,23 223:17
223:22 224:2,3,17
225:1,11 226:23
227:7,11 228:5
229:11,16 230:25
231:3,14,21,23
234:8,25 235:4,9
236:2,3,4,13,15
237:1 240:11 241:4
245:24 249:14,23
250:3 251:6,18,22
252:8,25 256:1
257:8,18,22 260:1
264:11 265:6 268:7
270:1 271:20
274:17 275:6
DOJ REDAC...

Page 11
Page 11
278:14 279:1,2
281:16 282:23
283:5,9 284:15
288:22 291:14
293:19 294:17,20
297:21 301:8,9
302:3 303:8 311:3
314:24 315:5,11
316:3,16 317:9
318:10,17,24
319:23 325:4,7,24
326:8 328:20 331:8
338:7
Foreign
242:24 282:17
forgot
271:18
forgotten
274:14 330:9
form
264:24 287:12
formal
218:2
former
238:20 239:16 240:3
240:12 251:13
253:8 254:18 255:5
261:12,20 269:21
271:5 308:24
320:17,22 321:4
323:6
fortune
279:17
found
251:11 311:3,6,17
335:2
foundation
249:11,13 256:1
258:12
four
236:14 253:15
frame
300:6
frank
299:1
Fred
275:16
Frederic
274:23 275:7,16
freestanding
224:21
frenemy
267:5
frequency
308:15,17 319:8
Friday
217:4 285:20 337:4
friend
229:17 239:6 260:1
331:6
friendly
229:20 262:1 267:8
267:16 270:14
272:8 274:24,24
275:10 276:25
321:6
friends
238:24,25 242:9,16
242:25 243:6
250:12 267:18
270:14 272:8,23
275:20 276:12
278:10 284:2,3
295:12 312:4
315:10,24
friendship
224:19 265:16 267:3
270:22,23 271:1
friend's
236:10
from
218:20 219:3,13,23
220:20,22 222:14
223:21,21 224:10
224:24,25 229:18
230:15 231:14
233:19 234:20
236:25 237:13,20
237:20 242:16
244:20 246:11,12
250:6 258:10 259:6
259:7,7,7 263:3,7
265:18 268:9,15
269:13,15,16 275:7
277:23 278:7,8
279:17,19 280:7,23
282:4 285:19 286:6
286:18 290:20
295:7,11,23 296:16
296:17 297:7,8
299:21 300:4
303:22 308:18
312:19,19 316:15
319:20 320:22
324:13 325:15,16
325:16 326:11
327:3,24 331:16
335:17,25
front
326:21 328:12
fronts
312:25
full
221:10 257:3
fun
278:14
fund
281:8,10,12
funded
281:6
funds
226:7 281:23 282:1
funky
261:11 331:9
further
338:9
G
Gates
228:11
gave
224:8 225:12 304:6
311:9 323:7
Gell-Mann
280:9,10,15,15
315:17
general
216:6,8 253:1
generally
247:5 271:12
generous
225:3
genuine
278:8
George
272:18
German
279:24
get
217:24 227:6 241:16
247:8,11 251:21
261:25 262:8
281:21 284:6 293:3
318:6 323:9 329:21
330:2 333:20
335:20
gets
223:11
getting
250:6 286:10 307:7
310:5 316:9,22
330:5
Ghislaine's
234:24
gift
323:9
gifts
323:6
girl
300:18 304:10
give
224:7 225:15 249:19
250:8 254:5,8,...

Page 12
Page 12
335:21
giving
222:17 232:2 286:13
294:9 303:25 304:6
305:6 307:23
308:10,21 310:10
328:7
gladly
336:23
Global
249:17 260:22 261:5
263:16
glue
333:15 334:2
go
218:16 220:6 223:3,4
225:21 229:6
232:19,20 235:16
250:11,16 251:17
255:17 259:20
262:1,8 264:8 265:3
265:17 266:2,11
268:22 271:23,23
275:10,13,14,15
276:12 280:10
291:16 293:7 300:4
302:15,25 304:10
316:3 318:1,5 335:6
goal
224:15
God
240:16 327:2
going
217:25 218:2,16
222:18 228:22
232:20 234:2
235:24 245:7
247:12,18 250:13
252:23 255:1,17
262:15 265:10,18
281:14,16 285:7
290:13 291:2,25
293:9 297:17
309:18 314:11,21
316:3,9,16,21
317:25 318:1,6
319:20 320:10
323:11 325:23
334:18,21 336:15
Goldman
282:14
golf
284:9
gone
252:6 265:13,14
270:9,11,12 314:23
317:9
good
217:3,8,10,11 223:7
238:1 242:9 267:18
goodness
228:16
Google
236:3
gosh
284:9 298:3 318:5
got
224:13,13 227:10
232:19 244:20
250:22 280:16
285:3 319:3 321:22
322:10,25 323:3
gotten
319:25
Gould
277:4,4 278:6
government
222:12,13 223:12
230:19
grab
303:21
grand
335:17
great
284:10
grift
285:10 317:19
grifter
285:6
grounds
225:24
group
218:3 276:25
groups
316:19,20
guess
226:21 241:16
275:19 295:19
332:16
Gullwing
226:24
guy
275:24 310:17
312:13 317:24
318:6 322:3
guys
227:9 252:24 275:18
318:16
H
habits
245:6
hairdresser
274:23
half
297:23 336:13
Hamptons
273:15
handing
306:9
hands
245:7
handwriting
331:21 332:1
hang
247:6 266:24
hanging
219:6
happen
290:24 292:6 301:3,4
317:18
happened
222:16 226:19
242:14 252:5
261:10 286:23
292:15 296:2,3,6
297:21 298:13
301:14 306:24
318:9 319:13
334:21
happening
308:1
happiness
278:7
happy
287:17 292:21
326:24
hard
262:4 294:20
hardworking
312:12
Harvard
277:1,5,19,25 280:25
281:5
has
219:22 236:23
238:12 294:16
299:18 316:14
330:16 336:21
hats
284:18
haven't
244:5,6 274:11
having
226:15 262:7 264:18
273:8 277:24
319:11 323:17
328:1 329:4
head
241:16 255:1 330:1
health
240:19
hear
286:18 316:23
317:25
heard
267:11 280:24 283:1
286:19,20 324:14
330:14,17,20,24,25
331:1,5,9
heavy
261:25 332:23,2...

Page 13
Page 13
221:13 222:21
223:6 231:1,9,12
265:21,22
helmets
284:18
help
241:10 260:24 264:1
327:24
helped
251:3,21 260:23,24
264:15
helpful
300:2 302:3 336:21
helping
232:1,1 263:18
Henry
242:23 275:22,23
her
219:23,23,24 228:13
234:25 235:2 241:9
247:5,25 259:3
266:22,24,24,25
267:3,15,16,17
269:20,25 270:21
270:21,22,23,23
271:1 293:13,13,15
293:21,24,24
294:17,18,20
296:16,21 299:21
300:8,16 301:6,6,6
301:7,9,23 303:20
309:7,9,10,10,11,12
315:9
here
217:6,16,17 218:1,1
245:14 264:25
290:12 291:4
293:19 299:14
303:21 312:10
314:6,8 316:7 318:2
322:24
hereby
338:3
here's
227:8
herself
294:16,17 309:11
he'd
287:20,21 307:7
he'll
326:20
he's
232:3 238:13 312:8,9
316:19,22 317:22
317:23,23 321:3
327:3,22
hid
335:24
hide
312:15,21
hideous
322:19,22
high
253:22 291:15,19
313:2 332:25
Hillary
259:1,17,24 260:10
himself
246:14 261:1,4 264:2
283:21 301:5
306:14 327:20
his
221:20 229:13,17
230:16 236:4,21
237:21 238:11,13
239:1 240:15 242:8
243:4 249:11 255:6
255:20 256:1
258:12 261:21
262:5,9,20,20,24
263:9 264:11,18
266:16 270:12
272:3,23 273:2,3,13
273:14,19 274:1
275:23 279:23
281:7,19 282:19
286:1 287:2,19,21
287:21 297:24
299:17 301:18,24
303:7 305:12,15
307:8,9,15 308:15
310:1 311:24,25,25
312:3,4,9,25 313:6
314:1 315:24
316:18 317:20
319:12,18,18 321:9
322:15 324:6,21
325:13,22 326:11
327:23 329:24
334:13,20
hit
279:17
hold
243:21 259:5
holding
243:22 257:1
Hollywood
268:9
home
260:4
homes
283:23
honestly
271:14
honor
251:8 253:7
Horn
216:9 217:3,5 285:16
285:19 320:10,13
337:2
horrible
298:4
host
278:19
hostility
267:9
hosting
258:22
hotel
253:2
hour
285:23
hours
227:6 336:13
house
234:20 246:24 252:7
259:19,21 270:12
273:14,16 277:7,13
283:21 287:2 297:3
297:25 301:6
302:23,25 303:2
308:21,22 309:1
321:9 322:6
houseman
305:22 306:15
houses
226:1 283:24 319:18
how
217:9 220:12 222:24
228:7,7 235:18,21
236:6 240:24 247:1
247:24,24 250:19
253:15 255:11
256:25 257:9
260:19 261:10
267:13,15 268:13
269:3 271:8 272:22
273:19 278:9,9,10
278:10 280:7
281:18,22 282:20
...

Page 14
Page 14
idea
235:8 250:4 262:11
264:7,11,14,15,17
327:17
ideas
255:9 311:9
identify
274:8
image
310:18
imagine
265:25 269:25
304:16
immediately
289:21
importance
264:25
important
314:5 335:15,24
impossible
219:12
inappropriate
244:14,18 245:4,5,8
245:9
inaudible
227:12
inches
332:14,14,25
included
284:8 286:14 312:22
including
335:16
increased
308:18
incredible
253:21 262:11
independent
224:16,20,24 252:19
261:9 265:16
270:18,24
independently
224:16 271:23
indications
230:14
indiscernible
220:7 277:22 331:4
individuals
235:15 239:9 253:4
254:17,18 300:10
information
220:21 250:9
initial
217:13,15,22 314:11
Initiative
249:17 260:22 261:5
263:16
insert
264:2
insider
228:14
instance
221:13 226:23 301:8
institute
279:5,6,9 280:8,13
institutions
278:2
instruct
327:4,6
intelligence
279:23
interaction
287:23
interactions
319:10
intercourse
318:12 328:2
interest
228:24 234:21 278:8
279:2 280:3 287:5,8
321:3 322:1
interested
252:24 278:4 287:4
315:10 322:2
338:12
interesting
311:4,5 315:12,17
317:23
interests
283:16
interfaced
311:22
interfacing
311:24
interlocutor
327:21
interrogate
279:24
interrupt
218:12 299:13 302:1
303:8
interrupted
218:18
interview
216:1 337:3,5
into
223:4 226:1 231:19
232:8,11 234:9
243:17,18 245:18
246:2 252:20 255:1
279:25 280:1 291:8
293:3 304:10 307:4
308:23 317:7,22
introduce
314:19 315:9,15
introduced
280:10 292:13
introductions
218:3
intuition
267:22
investigation
295:20 314:12,15
investigator
226:14
investing
228:8
invigorating
311:7
invite
277:13
invited
250:11,16 259:22
involve
301:5
involved
239:22 260:25 261:3
295:12,12 319:17
338:9
Iranian
302:23
island
236:10 237:1 239:13
259:6,7,11,15
265:10,14,19 270:4
270:12 274:5
275:23 276:1,7,9,15
281:24 288:23
310:8 312:14 316:3
316:20 319:23
321:11 329:23
331:7 335:2
Islands
276:4
issue
219:10 221:7 223:11
285:22 289:15
312:17 317:11
324:16
issues
272:14 298:9 323:17
324:24
items
335:15
its
283:13 319:9
it'll
227:22 279:10
it's
217:13,19 218:3
219:9,12 220:6,12
225:4 235:24
237:19 238:1
2...

Page 15
Page 15
324:12 325:12
332:14 336:4,11,22
I'd
222:22 233:16 252:8
282:12 301:23
304:23 318:13
I'll
217:25 218:9 251:16
254:25 323:16
327:10 336:6,14
I've
223:22 224:17 225:2
236:22 244:1
267:16 273:3
278:25 283:23
284:4,5 292:5 305:1
316:2 331:1 336:5,6
J
Jane
292:19 300:7 301:5
Jarecki
275:23
Jay
277:4,4 278:6
job
253:21 279:23
305:21 306:4,13
315:14
John
239:16 240:12
308:23
Johnson
274:20
joke
228:18,20
joked
327:2
Jon
273:1
journals
280:2
July
216:2 217:4 285:20
337:4
jury
335:17
Justice
216:1
justify
314:7
juveniles
298:11
K
Kate
294:16
keep
334:12
keeps
334:2
Kellen
311:22
Kennedy
239:6 240:3,9,13,18
240:21 242:11
243:8 244:13,14,18
245:17 246:1,1
330:9
Kennedy's
241:13
kept
246:14 268:24 269:8
286:6
Kerry
238:9,25 239:16,17
240:13
Kevin
269:12
key
264:16 297:24
kids
272:24,25 273:13,19
274:1 283:6 317:24
kind
217:13,24 218:7,21
220:17 226:15
251:17 253:5,6
254:9 264:18
278:12 281:15,18
286:1,4 292:15
302:5 310:13
316:17 321:15
322:5 325:14
326:14 327:9
335:10 336:14,22
kinds
252:20
knew
221:25 227:5 237:11
238:11 239:5 240:9
240:14,19,22 241:7
241:12 243:19
260:9 262:15,20
268:10,11 269:20
269:23 272:19
275:7 291:22 292:1
293:13,14 294:12
297:4,14 301:5
325:23 330:22
knowing
334:24
knowledge
237:17 246:4,5 270:6
280:3 323:10
known
227:9
knows
297:20 299:19
L
lack
220:17
land
226:1
large
233:18 283:21
289:15
Larry
271:4 318:4
last
258:15 266:21,22
282:20 284:18
297:22 319:2
323:12 331:14
late
230:19 258:17
299:12
latent
267:9
later
233:19 234:4 237:7
253:5 295:8 308:10
312:9
Latin
248:14
law
290:2 314:17
lawsuits
274:10 294:9
lawyer
246:24 331:12 336:7
lawyers
218:8 233:7 302:12
336:19
layer
298:25 315:21
Leah
216:14 234:23 235:4
238:14,16 267:24
268:1 273:4,6
284:20
leaked
336:3
least
219:4 246:15 301:2
leather
335:11
leather-bound
332:11 334:11
leave
219:6 252:17 279:4
286:22
leaving
320:7
left
217:15 247:20
249:10 255:18
297:19 304:14
legal
244:7 333:8
Lehman
282:14
lent

Page 16
Page 16
226:7
less
288:22
let
218:9 223:10 232:19
241:7 299:13
328:18
letter
268:1 331:14,18,19
331:23 333:8
letters
333:14,15,16 335:8
let's
222:3 223:2 241:16
277:16 289:23
290:21 291:8 300:9
309:4 320:9 327:5
Levine
250:21
library
334:1
license
227:11,22
lie
230:15 296:20 297:7
324:18
lied
296:16
life
223:23 232:2 240:6,7
246:11,12 254:9
284:5 310:2 311:25
314:23 319:13
327:23
lifestyle
310:22 313:13,22
316:1,18 317:12
lift
261:25
light
313:9
liked
228:9 267:2,19 311:7
321:22 325:11
326:4,23 327:22
likely
291:18
likes
326:20
limited
227:5 244:10
line
303:12
list
282:18 329:25 330:4
330:5,12,13,16,16
330:18
listen
321:1
listened
282:24
literally
246:10,11 307:15
little
220:15 260:5 266:19
268:24 271:13
285:23 308:5
309:25 315:22
336:6
live
281:19
living
302:23 310:22
loads
254:22
loaned
225:12
logbook
257:25 258:1
logs
257:15,16,18,19,23
258:4
London
242:16 256:14,15
266:10
long
219:9 243:6,13,15
271:21 285:24
330:8
longstanding
242:7
look
222:22 223:3 226:25
227:23 232:23
279:9 292:24
302:24 309:15
315:5 331:20,25
332:1
looked
285:11 288:1,11
309:12 310:18
332:6
looking
241:4 252:25 287:13
295:15 309:14
looks
226:14 332:2,13
loosely
269:1 319:18
Los
258:19
lost
273:3 300:3 317:9
lot
218:19 223:23
227:16 229:5
230:13,13,20 232:2
244:1 246:14
253:16,16,17 255:4
257:4,8 272:7
273:21 274:12,12
278:24 281:6 282:8
282:8 287:22
293:10 311:2
312:13 313:16
336:18
lots
229:8 256:8
loved
230:16
lucky
227:15
lying
324:19
L.A
258:23 268:25
M
M
338:3,14
machine
265:23
made
227:5,16 301:19
317:22
Madrigal
216:15
main
308:22
major
243:4 277:8 278:6
279:16 282:15
make
233:4 235:7 245:3
248:11 251:20
281:9 284:2 290:16
326:24 327:10
makes
233:5
making
270:22 281:20
300:22
man
245:4,15 251:10
280:18 317:17,21
318:22
manage
302:25
manager
253:1
mandatory
278:14
Manhattan
334:15,16
manifests
258:4
manner
218:10
many
220:18,18 223:17
224:3 236:6,6
253:14,15 256:25
257:9 267:17,17
280:6 298:10 313:2

Page 17
Page 17
313:2 331:1
Mark
216:10
market
275:25
Markus
216:13 217:20,21
218:8 221:15 222:7
228:13,18 231:18
247:9 249:22,25
285:15 297:16
299:13,21 303:8,11
303:14,17,23 304:2
304:4,9,13,18,20
306:18 336:14
married
238:9 241:13 303:6
Marshal
216:10
Martha's
259:8
Martin
226:25 277:3
Marvin
276:24
Mary
241:8 242:8
Mar-a-Lago
219:3,5,22
massage
244:20 286:16
287:19,21 288:22
291:25 292:17
303:14,20,23
304:10,22,24 305:1
305:6,7,14,17 307:7
308:21 309:3,18
316:22 318:7 319:4
319:25 331:3,6,8
massages
286:10,11,13 288:16
288:19 302:18,20
305:10 308:9,10
310:6,7,10 316:9
329:21 330:2,5
masseuse
303:15,24 304:25
305:5,16,25 306:7,8
306:20 311:12
315:7 328:1 331:6
masseuses
244:15,20 302:21
304:5 305:19 315:5
319:11 325:10
326:17 328:12
331:2
massive
232:4
masturbate
304:25 305:5 325:13
326:20
masturbating
304:22 325:22
328:12 329:4
masturbation
326:16
matched
229:4
material
244:7
math
306:6
mathematician
277:3
mathematicians
277:18
mature
309:12,14
may
219:2 222:15 234:20
245:9 260:24,25
261:8 263:2 264:1
269:10 270:7,9,11
270:12,16 272:12
273:8 281:3 296:11
300:23 327:1 330:8
331:6,12
maybe
218:23 219:9 222:1
222:19 223:10
226:2,3 236:7
255:14 257:14
265:6 267:5 268:25
270:14 275:16
276:10 281:4
287:10 288:10
291:9 292:3 297:25
306:2 313:17 318:8
318:15 323:9 329:2
329:19 331:3
mean
224:1 225:2 229:25
233:6 238:19
240:14 242:15
243:20 244:25
245:2,2,8 246:4
249:6 250:1 251:2
251:12 252:22
259:25 262:11
267:16,16 269:9
272:14,14 273:3
275:13,14,17 278:5
278:7,24 279:2
284:9 286:25,25
287:9 290:5,13
291:17,18 292:4,7
294:11,14 296:11
303:22 304:23
305:11,24 307:5,6
307:18 310:16
311:16 314:24
316:6 317:14 318:2
323:8 324:23 325:7
325:8 334:7
meaning
234:8 249:11 261:4
278:11 292:16
319:10 320:22
means
230:9 281:19
media
338:4
medicine
252:22
meet
219:24 235:21
236:20 242:11
247:25 258:25
259:3 273:9 275:19
280:21 293:12,13
293:21,24 294:18
309:10 315:11
336:24
meeting
239:21 258:21
meetings
282:8,24
Melissa
216:15
memories
219:1
memory
220:4,9 231:14 232:9
232:13 235...

Page 18
Page 18
276:8 278:23
293:15 295:7,12
300:8 308:8 315:6
315:10,16 318:17
323:15 330:8,8
Mexico
266:6 270:4,13 274:5
279:5,9 281:25
316:20 329:23
Microsoft
228:10
middle
263:3 299:9
might
219:12 259:9 269:11
307:22 333:8
military
279:21
million
220:24 222:14 224:9
230:24 231:15,22
232:19 233:9,14,22
233:22 234:3,4,5,6
235:8
millions
223:13,14 226:11
229:8,9 230:23,24
Mills
246:21 247:1,2 248:1
248:15
mind
224:22 244:11
274:11 279:4
282:15 286:22
289:18 292:14
295:6 298:7,9
299:11 302:9 330:1
330:11
minds
317:9
mindset
296:4
mine
221:14 232:25
234:22 245:9,21
Minsky
276:24
minute
279:10 281:15
296:16
misperceived
298:5
misperception
297:23
missed
296:3
misunderstand
314:9
MIT
277:19,22,25 281:1
mob
317:11
model
243:5
modeling
243:5
models
303:1
modus
326:11
money
220:21,25 221:4,12
221:12,15 222:16
222:17,20 223:3
224:23 225:4,12
226:7,16,20,21
227:16 229:8,14
230:20,22 232:4,13
232:17,24 233:8
234:5,8,11,19,22
261:4,8 281:19
305:22 306:10,15
money's
222:5
monies
222:25
monolith
246:8
more
218:17,23,24 227:15
235:16 252:19
253:11 254:8 265:4
291:9,18 299:5
308:5 309:13
315:22 324:10
morning
217:3,8,10 281:17
297:17 316:22
331:14
most
282:15
mostly
306:11,14 329:22
mother
293:25 301:7
mouth
286:10 329:15
move
232:21 234:2 288:3
312:3
moved
308:22,23 321:15
moves
234:19
movie
313:12
moving
232:24 307:3,4 308:5
Ms
217:7,8 218:5 219:21
239:6 247:1,2 248:1
248:15 269:23
270:2 298:4 299:3
320:14 337:3
much
229:22 253:22 267:2
272:15 275:14
277:10 282:10
292:5 297:25 299:5
multiple
253:14 286:11 289:8
289:8 310:7
Murray
280:9,10,15,15
315:17
mushroomed
317:7
music
311:10
Musk
235:19,22 236:15
237:3,11 239:4
Musk's
236:21 237:24
my
217:4 218:10 221:11
224:15,18,19,20,23
224:23 225:1,5
227:8,10,22 228:12
228:22,22,22 229:5
229:17,23 231:2
232:8 234:11 235:6
235:25 236:14
237:13,14,25,25
240:7 241:16 244:7
244:11 247:8,11
250:3 252:18
254:15 255:1
264:11,14 267:3,22
270:6 273:17 279:3
279:16,17,20
282:15 284:2,3,3,5
287:5 289:18
290:20,20,24 296:8
296:12,15 297:13
298:3,...

Page 19
Page 19
naked
303:24 305:5
name
217:4 221:22 223:5
234:24,25 235:1
238:13 262:14,21
262:24 263:9 273:3
277:14,15 294:18
332:1
named
246:21
names
218:17,19,20,24
235:16 254:24,25
263:4 274:9,10,12
274:12,16,16,17
275:21 282:12
330:1,1
Nantucket
259:7,11
Naomi
269:18,19 270:7
narrative
317:3,6
near
275:23 276:2
necessarily
291:17,18
need
218:8 243:3 254:23
326:1 327:21
needed
219:5 225:1
nefarious
231:23 282:5
negative
318:13
neighbors
284:3
neither
338:7
never
221:13,14 224:17
225:2 230:16
231:21 239:8
244:17 245:4,5
252:5,6,8,9 257:25
258:2,2,4,5,5
259:15 265:11,12
265:24 267:15
282:6 287:9,11,16
288:2,5,9,10,11,16
290:19,22 292:1,8
295:10,16,17
296:17 297:8 304:1
305:13 306:12
309:16 311:1 313:3
313:5 314:23
318:10 321:5,6,23
322:14,23 324:23
327:4 328:4,9
330:13,16,17,19,20
330:24,25 331:1,2,5
331:9
new
217:6 227:11 259:8
266:6,7 270:4,13,13
273:21 274:5
275:20 279:5,9
281:25 283:18
284:8 305:23,24,25
310:8 315:11
316:20 319:21
321:9 322:5 329:23
329:24 335:2,4,24
next
281:16 285:23
316:15 320:7
336:15
night
218:25 263:4 282:20
284:18 319:23
331:14
nipples
325:13
nobody
228:9 293:18 297:20
305:21 318:11
nonconsensual
288:17
none
330:14,14,14,15
non-consensual
288:7,9 289:17
non-criminal
313:22
nor
338:8,11
normal
310:11
normalized
312:25
normally
288:22 305:21
nothing
233:20 235:1 244:9
244:11 251:2 285:6
289:14 290:18
328:2
notion
265:22 285:5
novel
334:3
now
225:14 226:2 229:3
230:7,12 234:11
245:7,8 246:12
253:17 256:7
275:19 276:7
284:24 285:16
286:4,19 291:4
294:16 295:23
297:22 301:4
302:24 309:11
312:11 313:8,20,24
318:25 330:11
334:24
Nowak
277:3
number
227:5 289:16 312:25
319:10
numbers
254:8
O
observation
229:5
observe
304:21 308:9 326:6
328:1,7
observed
229:6 277:24 308:14
320:22 322:14
324:14 325:16
obviously
225:2 232:23 244:7
252:18 255:8 281:8
292:16 312:24
313:18 316:11
321:3 327:22
occasions
257:9
Ocean
239:22,25
odd
261:11
off
280:11 285:10,11,18
319:22
offered
255:8 319:21
office
247:20 249:10
308:23,25
Official
277:21 338:14
often
303:2...

Page 20
Page 20
231:25 234:2 237:1
237:15 238:13
239:10 240:15,25
243:8 244:15 247:7
248:2,12,16,19,21
250:5,13 251:24
252:18 253:7,17
255:17 256:10,13
256:18,19,23,25
257:9,15,16 258:16
259:6 263:12 264:5
265:18 270:16
272:10,13 274:1
278:6 280:11,22
282:7,22 285:20
286:1 287:1 288:23
289:4 298:22 299:8
300:2,2 304:24
305:1,17 306:6,17
307:8,9 308:10
310:7 311:9 312:9
312:14,25 313:12
313:13 315:21
316:4,10 317:13
319:22,24 320:19
321:6,15 324:6
327:9 331:7 332:23
333:4,20 337:4
once
253:11 265:4,4,6
271:22 312:8
one
218:18 221:23
224:17 225:3 226:3
233:21 244:20
251:5,6 255:14,23
255:25 256:7,7
262:1 268:18
279:16,17 281:8
283:22 284:10
289:2,19 291:10,16
295:6,19 299:10,15
301:19 303:8 306:9
308:18 312:25
317:21 319:23,23
321:13 324:10
325:6 331:11
335:19 336:13
ones
256:1 282:13
one-time
232:5
only
227:4 237:13 238:8
239:20 259:17
261:1 268:15
271:22 282:22
283:15 300:14,15
300:15 311:20
313:10 319:23
open
299:4
operandi
326:11
opinion
229:17
opportunity
251:10 299:8
oral
328:6,7
order
235:9
organize
277:8 281:12
organized
283:5
orgies
301:8,9,11
originally
225:24 321:2
Oscars
237:5,5
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221:15 229:4,11
230:15 232:21
251:3,12,13 253:4
253:10 254:19
255:8 256:10
257:10 267:18
269:16 273:2
274:10 275:21
282:7 285:4 290:14
299:15 300:21
302:11 311:21
321:5,8,14 323:5
329:20 335:19
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223:5 253:9 278:1
300:20 312:19
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261:11 338:12
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218:5 323:12,14
out
252:18 253:25
261:22 266:24
267:11 273:20
275:13,14,15 279:4
294:8 296:10 298:2
308:22 309:25
331:13
outcome
338:12
outside
283:18
over
220:22 222:8 223:14
224:18 225:15
233:22 250:2
253:10 257:21
264:8 289:25
305:19 310:14
318:1 323:22
324:15 327:12
330:22 332:14
334:17 335:6
overage
325:10
overt
313:18
overtly
313:17
overwhelming
299:17 311:3
own
224:23,23 225:5
229:13 240:6
252:19 261:21
264:18 294:17
297:13 299:17
313:24 327:10
333:18
owned
221:13 272:11
283:16 284:15,24
284:25 285:1
owning
264:21
P
P
317:13
packed
257:4
pages
335:1
paid
223:13,15,22 224:6
230:20 231:21
233:15 234:7 235:8
318:10
...

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Page 21
289:4 299:6 308:25
309:1 310:13 312:9
314:5 315:14,14
335:19,21
participate
291:7 306:19
participated
299:6
participating
288:15 308:2
particular
334:12
parties
338:8,11
party
321:1
passing
238:4,4 329:19,19
past
260:3 307:3 310:14
321:15
patches
324:2,3
patently
265:20 327:18
pay
305:19 306:7,13,14
paying
305:25
payments
232:5
payroll
220:17 231:25
peak
319:9
people
229:11 230:15
242:17,20 253:23
262:2 267:18
282:18 284:2
285:11 286:20
287:18 293:11
300:21 301:8,11
302:12,21 303:1
309:2,3,19 311:7,8
311:21 312:4,22
313:2 315:12 316:7
317:2,8,25 320:1
328:25 329:21
330:2,5,6,7
per
220:19
percent
225:16
perception
297:19 298:2
perfectly
282:2
perform
305:17
performing
223:16
Pergamon
280:1
period
219:9 229:18 252:14
271:12 274:25
300:15,25 302:16
302:17 308:5,11,14
308:19 335:15
336:13
permitted
292:8
person
271:6 294:16 299:18
301:23 311:20
328:5
personal
229:7 237:16 246:3,5
257:25 272:4
297:13
personally
229:6 231:13 282:25
personnel
264:16
person's
262:13
perspective
326:11
persuasive
298:13,15
Pestana
216:7
Philip
250:21
Phipps
225:25
phone
264:5 282:7
photo
305:11
photograph
309:15
photos
316:2 330:23
physical
289:13
physicality
287:24
pick
314:23
picking
306:17
picture
310:1 322:8,11
pictures
323:6
pieces
335:24
Pigozzi
236:11
pilot
265:22
pilots
257:25
pin
249:21
pinching
325:13
place
217:13 271:21
293:10 294:2 316:8
places
218:18 266:9
plane
239:10 251:6,18,21
252:8,10 255:20
256:20,23 257:1,12
287:2 316:4 321:6
322:3
planes
240:15 272:10 274:2
281:24
please
225:3 228:15,16
251:12 259:5 314:9
325:25 327:15
pleasure
327:7
plus
265:20
pocket
231:19
podcast
294:17
point
219:24 255:12,16
284:6 286:10
294:25 295:1 296:1
296:3 298:20
299:21 311:24
312:2 319:9
poor
314:8
pop
255:1
position
301:24
possibility
220:8
possible
234:21 250:8 268:5,6
276:20
possibly
226:3 288:24
post
237:8 249:20 297:12
potentially
329:23
pre
249:20
precise
231:17
preferred

Page 22
Page 22
295:2 298:17
present
236:15 282:23 305:1
308:2 311:20 331:1
presented
334:10,10
president
247:3,19 248:3,4,6
248:18,23 249:5,6,9
252:1 253:8,24
254:2,19 255:6
257:11 258:10,16
259:24 261:12,20
264:18 265:4,10
266:3,11 268:20
269:21 320:17,23
321:4,22 322:2
323:7
presidents
249:8
press
237:20 280:1 302:14
322:13
pressured
253:22
presumably
331:2
pretty
241:8 282:10
prevent
280:4
priapism
325:4
primary
256:1
prisoners
279:24
private
283:23 316:4
privilege
251:9
probably
227:24 231:9 239:20
247:11 250:17
269:25 275:7
306:16 313:4
330:10
problem
218:9
problems
229:23,25
proceedings
338:9
process
260:21
produced
309:15
professional
333:25 334:8
professionally
334:7
professors
278:1
proffer
217:7,11 320:14
337:3
profit
226:5
profits
225:14 226:9
profoundly
278:4
program
314:9
properties
266:4 270:3 271:19
272:11
propose
225:8
prostitution
314:16
protective
310:18
provide
251:5
provided
338:4
public
257:19 291:11 294:7
295:23 296:10
297:19 322:5
publicly
274:9 292:12 310:18
public's
297:18
publishing
279:18
pull
235:2
purchase
221:16 223:5 224:8
purchased
221:19
purpose
249:3 255:7 258:20
314:24 336:8
purposes
255:22
push
302:14
put
234:9 262:12 271:21
279:10 286:9 300:2
329:15 332:6
333:20,21 336:6
puts
246:8
putting
232:12 302:11
p.m
337:4,5
Q
question
223:8 231:3,17
251:16 271:11
296:8 327:4,7,10
328:18 331:5
questions
218:10 239:3 250:3
303:12 320:20
325:7 330:25
336:20
quite
227:16 260:19
283:17
R
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217:1,5
ramp
263:15
ran
284:8
ranch
281:25
random
225:17 283:25
range
289:11
rape
326:10
rather
261:10
read
278:25 286:21,21
292:5 295:18
296:11 300:23
314:21 325:20
326:9,12 334:3
real
225:23 285:12
296:12 317:15,18
332:2
realize
296:1
realized
219:3
really
220:5 222:3 228:6,6
228:6 239:20
243:21,24 255:7
264:7 267:4 271:14
272:15 275:19
278:3 282:6 290:12
294:17 297:20
299:1,7 301:16,17
311:23 317:4,20
318:17 319:12
realms
220:8
reaped
225:13 226:8
reason

Page 23
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225:13 226:8
reason
223:15 231:23
237:13 249:21
250:3 260:2 277:24
282:4 297:15
reasons
325:7
recall
239:9,24 247:15
249:24 253:17
268:7 292:16
294:13 306:14
309:16 329:5 330:6
330:7,7 335:7,10
receive
224:10 302:20
335:14
received
219:23 224:25 234:8
306:16 335:1
receiving
222:25 231:14
288:15
recently
308:5
recognize
286:4
recollect
233:1 282:25 283:14
321:7
recollection
221:10 229:7,7
240:15 244:13
308:20
record
234:23 285:18
recorded
217:7 320:14 337:2
recording
338:4,7
records
232:11
recover
296:17 297:8
recruited
219:24
recruiting
223:17 235:10
red
284:18
reduced
338:5
Redux
317:13
referring
296:20 329:22
reflect
234:24 257:15
refresh
244:10,11
regard
224:18
regular
302:21 306:6 328:1
334:3
regularly
286:16
reimburse
224:2
reiterate
245:3
reject
292:15
related
228:11 338:8
relation
277:17
relations
242:24 278:15
282:17
relationship
220:16 224:19
243:18 245:17
250:23 251:3
254:10,10 258:9
263:13 270:21
272:3 273:19
279:14 280:8,24
281:5,6 308:7
320:18,22 321:14
321:21 325:17
326:18
relationships
242:21 246:2 254:11
277:18 280:25
287:6
relative
338:10
relieved
320:4
remember
218:23 219:8,11
225:14 226:2 228:2
231:18,20 233:17
235:24 236:6,9,18
244:24 247:4,7
249:7,17,22 250:11
250:15,16 251:6
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262:14,20,24 263:7
265:5,7 268:2 273:8
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283:20 296:25
304:3 305:8,25
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324:1 331:22 332:3
332:4,8,10,11 333:5
334:7,24 335:7,12
remembering
296:5
rental
271:20
repeated
308:1
reporting
305:6
reports
308:1
require
327:24
resembles
245:13
residence
329:24
respect
258:12 286:2
responsibility
265:25 315:15
responsible
251:18,19 257:18
279:1
restructured
283:12
resuming
285:19 320:13
review
244:6
reviewed
223:22
reward
235:9
rich
322:3
Richard
276:9,11
Riddell
284:17,20,21
Riddell's
284:17,19,22
ride
319:21
ridiculous
324:10
right
217:15,16,18 220:1
222:6 223:11
226:17 227:1,6,23
228:21 229:18
232:7 233:3 238:12
238:15 239:24
241:16 247:8,11
252:4 254:6,12,12
255:2 256:7 261:19
279:8 285:16,21
290:18 29...

Page 24
Page 24
334:20 336:25
role
250:13,14 262:5
room
303:15,24 304:10
305:14 307:8 318:9
328:3,8
rubbed
305:15 318:6
rubbing
305:11 307:15 310:9
rules
218:7
rumors
302:13
running
262:3 311:25
S
Saffian
216:14 234:23 235:4
238:14,16 267:24
273:4,6 284:20
said
219:2,15,16,17,19,22
221:7 222:4 223:2
223:21 231:25
234:12 237:25
244:1 253:6 255:16
262:19 265:9
270:16 282:2 284:1
285:2 286:3,8,12,13
286:21 289:9 292:2
292:4 293:5,5,17,18
295:4 297:16
298:10 299:2
300:19 301:3,12,21
302:12,12 306:24
313:5 315:6,21
316:14 318:11
321:10 323:13,23
325:11 327:8,9
328:11,13,17,21,24
329:18 333:22
335:5 336:7,22
338:6
Saint
319:22
sake
325:5
salary
224:6,24 225:2
Salem
317:8
same
217:14,25 218:3,6,6
239:3 242:20
256:17 269:14
271:11 306:20
316:8
Santa
280:8,12
Sarah
266:20 311:21
satisfy
317:11 327:18
saw
221:11 237:14,14
244:17 245:4,5
258:2,3,5,16 266:22
280:23 282:6,6
283:4 285:8,11
286:19,24 287:6,9
287:11,16,17,22,24
288:2,5,9,10,12,16
290:19,22 292:15
297:12 299:4 301:6
301:6 302:20,22
304:1 309:2,4 311:1
313:2,25 320:24,25
321:5,6,23 322:12
324:14 325:16
328:4,9,24,25 329:4
330:14 334:19
say
217:25 218:11
219:10 222:3,18,20
222:22 236:7,14
237:13 238:2,23
240:20 243:11
244:10,11 245:7,19
246:12 247:17,18
254:18,25 258:14
259:4,5 260:11
261:3 263:20
264:11,12 268:17
269:3,8 271:17
275:9 284:6,15
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289:16 290:22,23
291:3,6,22 295:5
298:22 299:8,14,14
300:4 301:1,13
303:20 307:6,23
309:5 310:5,11
316:17 317:25
319:5,10 321:18
327:17 329:2,3,10
329:22 336:6
saying
221:23 222:10,15
232:12 234:1
235:11 246:18
264:17 279:1 289:7
291:1,3 300:12
302:10,11 306:12
307:20 309:2 311:8
311:14 327:2 331:3
332:13
says
242:14
scene
327:3
school
291:15,19 314:23
schools
314:22
science
278:4
scientific
277:11 279:16,18
280:2,5
scientist
278:6
scientists
276:25 277:8 279:24
scrap
333:19
scribbling
263:4
search
322:6
searched
335:3
second
258:3 279:3,21 303:9
secret
257:4,5,8 266:16
Secretary
239:16,25 240:12
259:1 271:5
secure
224:17
see
217:14 226:16 258:7
259:23 260:12
270...

Page 25
Page 25
304:13,24,24 305:1
309:22 316:2
self
313:1
self-esteem
225:1
Senator
240:3,9
send
226:20 333:19
sense
233:4,6 281:21
286:15 294:7
sent
220:22,25 221:4,16
222:20
separate
224:24 246:11,11
258:9 271:1
separately
269:23
Sergey
236:2,3
Sergey's
236:12
Series
227:10,10
serves
236:1 273:17 314:14
service
223:16 257:4,5,8
266:16
services
231:22
set
222:3 258:3 281:16
296:15 320:20
seven
286:11 306:8,9
several
230:23 233:11
235:15 310:14
sex
308:1 313:11 316:9
318:7 323:15,17
325:20 326:8 327:3
328:1,5,6,7
sexual
286:14 288:15,18,21
289:10 303:25
304:6 306:19
307:14,24 310:3
312:16 318:8,12,22
318:23 326:9 329:1
sexually
223:18 291:24
298:11 324:15
share
246:15,17
sharer
246:15
she
219:22 248:17 267:2
267:4,4,19 268:7
269:24 270:9,10,10
270:11,12,13,16
274:22 292:13
293:5,13,14,15,17
293:22,24,25
294:12,17,19
296:25 297:3 299:4
299:4,19,22 300:8
301:8,14,21 303:6,7
309:8,10,10,14
311:23,25,25 315:7
315:8
she's
267:1,16,17 301:22
309:11
shift
301:18 314:4,5
short
244:6,9
should
234:23 244:10
261:20
shoulders
287:22
shouldn't
232:25 324:10
show
232:11,25 233:2
313:12,13
showed
222:13 331:12
shows
220:21
side
256:3 313:25
signature
217:15
signatures
235:2
signed
217:12 322:9
significant
290:1
Sikorsky
231:12
silver
275:24
simply
222:2
since
267:11 295:5
single
310:6
sirens
254:2
sit
316:6 320:25
sitting
287:20 322:24
situation
287:12 290:17
size
332:16 333:5,8,9
slid
294:23
slide
293:11 295:15
slips
279:3
small
283:3
smart
227:15 290:8
social
277:10
socializing
266:24
socially
238:24 273:8,22,23
273:24 287:11
sold
225:24 234:20
some
218:17,24,25 219:23
226:21 229:4
230:14 232:21
234:19,19 253:4
255:12,16 259:10
264:2 267:9 268:8,9
274:13,16,17
277:19 279:13
282:23,24 284:6
286:10,14 291:12
292:10 294:7,25
295:1,23 297:23
298:12 299:2
303:11 306:15
310:7 312:16
317:14,22 318:6,19
318:25 319:19
322:7 327:23
328:25 330:21
333:17,19,19,20
335:8 336:18
somebody
236:10 246:21
250:12 287:21
294:10 307:8 308:8
309:13 315:6,16
329:1 330:22 331:3
somebody's
245:9 273:16
...

Page 26
Page 26
219:20 220:23,24
225:9 227:9,23
229:16 232:21
235:25 236:14
244:23 245:4
247:11 249:14
251:9 253:7 255:8
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267:10 271:18
279:4 281:4 288:17
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323:13 331:13,21
332:16 333:16
sometime
323:23
sometimes
256:22 267:3,4
275:15 286:11
303:20 307:22
324:11
somewhere
230:17 232:17
255:18 299:9
334:12
soon
336:25
sophisticated
228:25
Soros
272:18,22 274:1
sorry
228:3 231:4,6 236:9
240:20 247:7 248:5
248:9 254:13
263:13 268:21,22
279:3 280:10,19
297:11 301:25
302:19 304:18
305:3 314:25 318:1
327:5,13 328:15,19
329:6,12,19
sort
225:17 260:9 269:1
286:14 289:18
310:17 312:16
313:5,11 322:7
330:21 332:15
sorts
252:24
sounds
232:12 234:1 256:6
260:5 261:11
South
248:3
Southern
312:10 322:4 335:3
335:23
Spacey
269:12 270:2,6
span
241:11
spas
220:6 315:6
speak
265:17 299:19
speaking
319:17
spec
254:5
Special
216:9 217:5
specific
254:8 329:6
specifically
280:9 283:19 309:7
spectrum
299:8
Spencer
216:9 217:3,5 285:16
285:19 320:10,13
337:2
spend
251:10 265:18
278:11 285:23
spending
233:2 253:8,22 255:4
255:5
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272:6
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284:16
Springer-Verlag
280:1
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287:21
staff
283:3 319:19
stairs
308:24
stand
253:25
standard
302:22
start
218:15 252:21
289:23 291:9
301:16 335:11
started
249:18 255:3,5,10
279:19 317:3,5
323:23 324:2
starting
220:18
startup
263:16
state
239:16 240:12 292:2
statements
291:11 294:8 295:23
States
216:1,5
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263:12 302:24
stayed
224:1 269:1
staying
263:12 273:16
step
316:15
stepchildren
314:25
Stephen
277:4,4 278:6
still
263:12 296:4 298:2
303:4 319:16,17
stitched
334:6
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332:23,24 333:4,11
333:14,16
stocks
283:11
stop
253:1 260:4
stopped
334:18,21
stops
256:8
stories
301:16 325:3,10
326:9
story
265:20 310:14 312:9
321:12 327:23
straight
241:16 333:21
strange
313:4
Street
334:14
strictly
260:20
structures
283:11
struggle
330:7
stuck
221:6
stuff
244:10 278:25
296:10
submitted
333:14
subsequently
303:5,6
substantial
317:2
substantive
DOJ REDACTION

Page 27
Page 27
222:5
successful
312:12
successfully
252:18
such
292:8 301:18 313:2
330:18
SUFFIAN
268:1
suggest
225:9 228:16 318:4
330:21
suggesting
228:25
suggests
301:9
sum
225:4 233:18
Summers
271:4,9 272:2,10
318:4
super
267:17,17
supervision
338:5
support
263:23
supported
263:25
supporting
263:19
suppose
258:6 288:2
sure
221:10,19,25 223:8
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248:11 251:20,25
255:13 260:19,19
265:6,12 269:11
270:18 274:18
281:3 284:2,15
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327:11 328:20,25
335:23
surface
263:3
surprised
264:3
surprisingly
242:13
suspicious
281:22
T
T
217:1
table
304:24
tainted
297:10,11
take
218:7 240:14 253:3
265:24 281:14,15
285:13,14,17 320:9
320:10 324:10
takes
285:24
taking
314:18,18 316:19
323:24
talk
218:8 220:14 224:12
253:13 254:5
277:16 281:16
285:25 297:17
298:3 299:23 300:9
320:24 326:17
330:18 336:11,14
336:23
talked
218:16,22 220:15
224:6,11 240:12
244:15 266:19
274:11,19 281:17
285:22,22 291:19
292:12 294:25
308:6 315:21 325:8
331:16 336:6,12
talking
230:6 234:3 241:11
241:12,14,23 242:4
244:2 245:12
252:14 254:18
261:24 268:18
271:12 275:1 279:7
289:6 292:19 295:5
297:2 299:11
305:16 307:9,13,14
307:20,25 309:25
311:21 317:1
323:12
tangent
280:11
targets
314:14
tasked
277:7
team
254:23 255:6
Ted
240:3,13 319:14,20
319:22
telehealth
252:21
tell
221:5 225:19 229:2
230:15 249:20
261:10 282:12
293:1 298:8 302:9
314:22 318:9
326:19
telling
296:5 302:10 311:13
327:1
telly
313:12
Tens
229:8
terms
264:4 289:12
TerraMar
239:23
terrible
317:24
terribly
321:23
terrify
265:24
testi
306:22
testified
292:11 295:24
302:13
testimony
222:12 291:10
292:23 293:22
294:5,6,21 297:12
306:23 335:17
testosterone
323:24 324:3
than
219:16 227:15 251:3
251:13 253:11
255:8 258:11
261:10 265:4 282:7
288:22 291:23
309:14 321:5
324:10
thank
217:22 218:13
241:25 280:14
285:15 288:8 315:2
That'll
227:23
that's
218:11,17 220:3
223:7,19,19 226:11
227:20 230:5,9,17
231:2 234:8,21
242:14 245:13
246:13 250:2
252:23 256:16
257:15 262:11
264:21 265:18
267:13,14 279:15
280:7 281:3 282...

Page 28
Page 28
304:19 306:24
307:11,14,19
310:11 311:11
312:2,21 316:11,13
318:2 323:18,20
325:6,6 328:22,22
329:11,13,16,17
333:1 336:4
their
223:19,19 257:25
282:23,24 287:7
291:13,25 295:14
302:12 315:7 317:9
320:21 321:14
329:2 333:18
them
222:22 223:18 227:6
235:17,18,18
240:14,15 251:21
253:17,19 254:21
254:22,22,24
255:22 256:23
257:19 258:2,3
260:13,25 262:12
263:18 264:1
268:10,11 277:13
277:14 278:10,11
278:15,15,19 280:6
280:6 282:13,15
289:5,17,20 290:23
298:11 300:23,23
306:9,13,14,16
308:16 311:1
312:14 314:21
316:10 320:24,25
321:6,8 326:20
333:22
then
217:20 219:3 221:16
225:13,25 226:4,8
227:12 229:2 242:5
242:10,23 252:8
255:7,14 258:3
264:1 274:25
275:17 278:12
279:22,25 280:1
281:9 282:19
283:15 286:18
295:14 297:11
298:16,25 299:5
303:5 312:9,10
315:20 316:19
317:7 323:11,22
324:9 327:25 333:2
334:9
therefore
289:20 293:23
thereto
338:11
there'd
284:13 307:6
there's
217:12 218:2,11,19
219:17 220:20,21
232:10 233:6,11,18
233:22 235:4 261:6
265:13,14 268:5,8
276:7 279:8 282:7
289:8,10,19,25
290:17 291:9,10
294:5,6,21 300:14
300:15 305:11
306:23 310:9
313:20 316:4
318:15 327:11
330:4,5,12,15
335:22 336:16
these
232:4 234:12 243:5
255:24 256:13,18
263:2 279:1 283:10
291:12 293:11
295:23 299:2
313:15 318:16
338:9
they
221:11 222:4 223:13
225:23,25 226:14
226:16,24 237:12
237:15 241:13
242:16,19 246:12
246:13 251:19,20
251:21 252:7,10
257:11 260:4
261:21,22 264:15
265:17 268:16,24
269:1,8,10 270:2,14
272:7,8 275:9,10,10
275:12 276:8
277:10,11,14,15
278:12 286:13,21
287:13,17 288:10
288:11,23 289:9,10
291:15,16,19,19,23
292:3,5 295:24,25
296:4 301:12
302:13 304:6
307:21 310:25
311:1,9,9 313:4,4
316:8 317:17
318:22,23 321:21
325:12 330:2,22
331:4 333:18,20
335:13 336:3
they'd
252:6,9
they're
220:7 255:1 257:19
310:9 316:21 318:7
318:8 332:5
they've
286:21 317:22
thick
332:17,18
thing
218:15 246:7 268:7
269:16 279:19
282:21 284:16
290:12 292:8
310:17 313:6 317:9
325:4 333:18,20
things
221:16 230:15 232:2
234:12 252:25
253:25 263:3 268:5
282:25 286:5 291...

Page 29
Page 29
218:23 251:8
261:20 282:3,20
284:17 285:11
303:3 310:25 313:4
315:17 322:18,21
thoughts
262:9
three
226:3 234:4 236:14
239:9 253:15 270:1
318:13
through
218:17 227:13
235:15,16 239:22
239:25 240:5,6
242:11,14 247:3
269:25 271:10
277:5 279:15
286:20,20 313:11
ties
277:25
til
229:19 293:15,22
time
217:4 219:9 224:8
225:7 227:19
229:17 236:16,25
237:3 241:11 242:8
243:13,15,18
251:10 252:14
253:6,8,23 255:4,5
258:15 259:17
265:18 266:21,22
271:12 274:25
276:10 278:11
282:16 283:8
285:16,20 286:18
286:19 287:15,16
287:18 296:9 297:3
300:2,6,15 302:15
302:16 303:4,22,22
306:20 308:5,11,19
308:21 309:8,16
310:1,15,16,19
311:20,24 313:5,10
315:13 319:2
320:11,15 330:8
337:3
timeframe
247:5
times
234:24 239:1,2
253:14,15,15
257:11 259:19
267:17 286:4
291:21 295:19
307:7 331:1
TMI
318:14
today
218:1 222:2 230:7,8
289:16 291:3
292:14 313:10
315:22 316:7
322:24 325:2
331:12 336:8
together
236:13 241:1 246:8
260:13 262:12
267:8 271:22
275:11,13 332:6
334:3
told
229:3,21 265:20
279:21 283:1
284:14,25 298:8
323:18,20 324:16
324:16,25 325:21
333:21 334:24
tomorrow
263:2
ton
220:21
too
229:22 234:24
253:14 277:22
283:2
took
224:3 252:12 257:5
293:10 294:2
top
224:5 277:17 303:12
315:21
topic
323:12
topless
288:24 289:3 307:23
329:2
totaling
220:23
touch
268:24 269:1,8
336:25
touched
320:19
touching
289:5
towards
308:16
trace
232:7
trade
229:1
traded
227:13
trading
227:12 228:14 229:8
229:11
traditional
286:16
trafficking
314:16,17
transaction
226:8
transactions
260:16
transcribed
338:4
transcript
338:6
transcription
338:1,6
TRANSCRIPTIO...
338:14
travel
229:21 230:10 232:3
255:10 270:3
275:10 329:21
traveled
272:10,15 274:1
275:13 287:16
302:22
traveling
255:21
Treasury
271:5
treatment
219:23
trial
220:20 221:6,7 233:7
290:20,24 292:11
294:3 296:15 317:8
tried
264:1 274:8
trip
241:1 243:7 244:15
248:2,12,16,19,21
249:4 250:5,13
251:7,22,25 252:4
252:11,12 255:11
255:15,17,19 256:7
256:17 257:10
258:16
trips
253:4,17 255:13,22
256:3,10,19 270:16
true
220:3,6 224:4 23...

Page 30
Page 30
try
218:9 264:24 282:20
313:11
trying
219:10 228:16 235:6
247:7,8 250:7
252:15,20,21
253:18 261:2 286:9
290:7 314:6,7 315:3
329:14
Tucker
268:11,14 269:4,9
270:2,5,6
turned
261:22 334:11
turning
294:10
TV
238:13,19,20,20
313:13 317:13
twice
257:14 265:6
two
226:2,3,4,23 255:13
281:24 289:19
290:1 291:9,10
295:19 308:18
type
230:16 287:12
types
242:20
typewriting
338:5
typically
305:20
U
ubiquitous
287:23
Uh-huh
274:21
uh-uh
318:13
ultimately
308:8 323:15
Um
245:20
unattractive
313:9
uncomfortable
287:14
unconsensual
288:13 289:21
under
219:7 247:25 250:3
287:11 292:16
294:12 295:25
308:24 338:5
underage
223:18 289:24
290:17 291:22
298:21 304:10
314:13,20 325:10
underline
229:16
understand
231:24 234:13,15
235:7 244:12 254:4
254:7 265:1 268:10
272:17 297:9 311:4
311:19 312:7,15
313:8 314:20 315:1
317:10,12 329:11
332:22
understanding
288:16 299:11
320:21
understatement
310:11
understood
264:22 276:21
295:10
unhealthy
324:12
unintelligible
280:19
United
216:1,5
university
278:12
unlimited
282:1
until
229:19 294:19 295:8
300:8 301:10 317:4
334:18
unusual
325:14
up
218:21 220:19 222:3
225:5,5 226:25
227:1,23 234:6
241:7 255:19
263:15 274:9 279:9
279:17 281:16
306:17 311:9
314:23 320:17
330:10
upon
223:12 317:7
upstairs
309:18
us
217:13 236:5,6
241:10 246:8
281:16 299:8 302:3
336:24
use
251:19,20 264:1
270:22 323:16
325:24,25
used
221:16 230:9 234:25
246:23 257:11,12
281:5
using
254:10 294:6 301:23
U.S
216:10
V
V
217:1
vacations
312:14
value
318:20
varied
225:15
various
283:12
varying
299:3
Vegas
316:16
version
327:23
versus
289:24
very
223:7 225:3 227:4
228:25 239:21,21
242:7,7,9,16 243:13
243:15,15 244:10
252:17 261:25
262:10,10 263:20
265:18 267:2,18
271:20 274:24
275:10,13 276:25
276:25 277:8 279:6
279:8 280:16,16
283:21 287:4 290:1
292:21 294:20
296:7 309:11
312:12 313:9 314:5
316:15 317:2
323:14 335:13,15
335:24 336:11,21
view
296:8 297:20 299:22
viewed
315:13
viewpoint
296:15
Vineyard
259:8
Virgin
276:4
visit
260:9 274:4 319:24
visited
270:10
visit...

Page 31
Page 31
W
W
217:1
wait
227:21
walked
328:3,8
want
219:6,19 220:12,14
229:15,22 235:14
235:16 236:13
238:2 243:11,21
244:4,11 247:17
255:4,17 258:6
259:4,5 264:10,23
268:9 271:17
274:16 284:1,3
285:23,25 287:10
289:24 290:11,16
293:2,7 295:10,13
298:22,25 299:1,7
302:1,1,2,8 307:5
315:3,20 318:14,15
319:5 321:24 327:9
327:10,17 328:16
wanted
218:21 219:18
224:23 248:10,11
264:6 276:22
280:24 291:16
293:1 318:22
320:16 336:23
wants
318:22
war
279:21,23,24 280:4
warmth
321:23,24
warrant
322:6
wasn't
222:16,17 229:20
230:16 264:11,12
306:1,3,8 311:20
315:16 317:20
318:8 319:1,12
321:1 324:2 335:21
watching
325:12
way
220:4 222:6 223:11
224:2 229:18
230:11 232:2
239:25 244:21
251:13 257:17,18
264:2 265:13,14
267:11,12 287:14
291:24 296:6
299:15 305:11
310:4 313:10 317:4
318:18 321:13
333:17 334:4
335:19
we
217:6,12,24 218:1,15
218:17,18,18,22
220:15 224:6,11
225:10,10,14,15,20
227:5 234:2,12
235:15 236:5,6,13
237:4,5 238:25
240:11,25 241:1
242:8 249:8 256:4
261:24 263:10
266:18 267:8
268:18,24 274:8,11
274:19 280:7
281:17 285:13,19
285:25 294:25
297:11,17 298:3,4
300:3 307:9 312:10
313:10 315:21
318:12 319:16
320:13,19 321:22
323:12 331:16
333:3 336:8,9,12,18
336:18,19,23
wealth
284:5
week
286:11 306:8,9
weekend
316:16
weird
219:7 252:9 311:2
331:10
well
217:22 221:2,9,18,24
227:21 228:6,7
229:2,19,21 230:13
232:10 233:11,16
237:22,25 238:4,8
238:12 239:2,20
240:3 241:7,8,17
243:1 245:2,21
246:12,15 247:10
249:5 251:3,6
255:19 257:5
260:18,25 261:6,18
264:8 267:1,3 268:5
270:6,10,10,14
271:20 274:15,17
275:2 277:20 280:6
280:16 284:1,4,14
284:25 285:13
288:4,10,20 291:17
292:18 298:21
303:19 307:21
309:24 313:4
314:24 315:13
319:24 320:10
321:23 323:13
325:6,19
went
220:12 231:19,21
233:8 235:15
236:10 240:25
241:1 243:8 248:2
248:12 250:5
253:16 255:12
256:4,10,12,14,15
256:18 258:16
259:18 261:11
265:12 270:13
271:22 272:14
276:9,10,12 308:18
312:14 315:6 318:7
321:10 333:21,24
weren't
277:10 297:24,25
316:8
Wexner
229:16,21,22 242:22
281:3,4,8 283:6,7
283:16
W...

Page 32
Page 32
when's
258:15 266:21,22
319:2
where
223:25 248:13 270:8
278:15 285:11
286:22 287:12
288:23 289:19
295:7 299:8 308:25
313:12 316:8,9
322:10,24 328:2
334:24 336:3
whether
220:3 222:4 229:3,23
237:10 239:4 240:2
240:8,13 244:19
245:25 250:23
258:9 260:8,15
268:10 269:7,22
270:13 272:9 274:1
276:14 280:20
291:23 296:25
298:11 299:9,10
321:14 325:12
328:8 329:20 331:3
335:18,19
which
225:14 244:7,9 248:1
248:4 272:25 280:1
281:8 282:13
283:18 284:8
290:12 291:17
294:11 296:20
297:4,13 315:23
318:19 323:2
333:17 336:9
while
253:20 280:21
281:21 316:22
317:14
White
246:23 252:7
who
219:2 240:1 248:15
248:21,23 250:16
250:24 251:5 262:2
262:13 273:5
275:23,24,24
276:23 287:10
288:21 289:2,9,16
289:20 290:19
292:11 294:17
295:14,23 300:7,19
300:21 301:12,12
301:19,21 302:21
302:22 303:17
306:23 307:23
309:7 310:22
311:22,22 313:16
314:12,13 315:6,10
315:16,17 317:12
317:24,25 318:20
326:19 329:21
331:2,6 333:25
336:22
whoa
254:2
whoever
287:18
whole
255:19 284:5 327:23
whom
223:17
who's
277:3 289:24,25
why
220:25 222:24 223:3
223:3,15 225:9
228:8 250:4,10,11
250:15 259:20
267:21 272:3
278:25 280:23
283:25 285:13
290:12 297:15
311:4 321:18
wide
241:11
wife
241:8,13
will
217:20 218:13
232:23 245:3
257:14 263:1,9
265:16 287:23
293:18 296:15
318:23
willing
336:24
wise
310:19
witch
317:8
within
227:6 230:12
without
249:21 251:3 253:5
255:20 298:16
300:3 321:14
witness
335:16
witnessed
330:15
witnesses
221:6
woman
245:5 292:16 301:21
305:6 327:18 328:7
women
223:17 235:10
244:15 286:2,12,25
287:1,1,2,4,6
288:21 289:2,9,14
289:16,19 291:12
291:22 295:2,14,15
295:23 298:10,17
298:21,24 299:2
302:17 303:1
306:23 307:22
308:10 310:6,8,9,23
313:7,15,17 314:1
314:12,13,19,20
315:16 316:5
319:11 320:1
326:18,23
won
279:21
won't
257:15
word
220:17 222:6 251:19
270:23 285:10
323:16 325:24
words
221:15 286:9 326:1
329:15
work
224:17,18 225:5
239:22 246:23
249:10 263:23
282:6 285:12 301:9
312:4 336:18
worked
248:23 254:19
working
219:22 224:19 256:2
257:21 326:19
world
279:21...

Page 33
Page 33
yea
332:11
yeah
225:21 227:25
228:21 231:24
233:5 235:3 238:17
242:18 243:2 246:5
246:9 248:7 250:2
252:16 256:5
259:25 263:5
265:25 273:24
276:3 277:22
284:21 285:15
288:24 289:22
290:4,10,10,10,15
292:20,24 293:2,2,8
293:8 296:13
297:15 300:13,13
303:10 307:12
311:11,15 312:23
316:12,25 327:14
327:14,15 337:1
year
220:19 233:10
235:24 237:6
years
220:18,22 223:14
224:3 233:12 234:4
243:17,18 253:5,10
257:21 305:19
310:14 323:23
324:15 327:12
334:18
Yep
245:11 268:22
yes
217:21 219:17
229:12 230:2,5,5
234:13 236:19
238:6,10,21 240:4
241:19,25,25
243:20 245:19,21
246:25,25 247:21
248:25 253:12
254:16,21,25
256:24 259:2,12,14
263:21 265:17
268:12,19,21
269:19 271:7 272:1
273:23 280:14
289:2 290:3,9
295:21 299:2,20
303:13,16 304:23
307:16 309:16
311:2 315:9 316:18
319:7 323:21,25
324:7 325:2 326:1
326:16,20,20
332:15 333:10,12
yesterday
217:12 218:1,6,16,22
219:15,16 220:15
223:21 235:15
238:4 239:16,23
242:15 245:2 263:7
266:20 271:18
274:20 279:20
281:17 283:2 286:3
286:8 294:25 295:5
308:6 315:22
323:13 330:10
331:17 335:6 336:7
336:8
yet
336:17
yippee
232:19
York
217:6 259:8 266:7,19
270:13 273:21
305:23,24,25 310:8
319:21 321:10
322:5 329:24 335:2
335:4,24
young
223:17 235:10
244:15 291:12
292:12 293:14
294:1 302:17
308:10 310:6
317:24
younger
295:2,15 298:17,24
311:7,8
your
217:14 218:8 220:16
220:20 221:22,23
223:4,5,23,25 230:1
231:16,19 232:11
232:13 233:7 234:8
234:9 235:10 239:6
240:6 243:18
245:16 250:12
254:9,9,9,13,14,16
254:24 263:12,13
264:7,12 266:12,12
270:22 273:18
279:11 284:10
286:9,22 292:14
295:6 302:8 306:3,3
308:6 318:20,20
320:21 327:7,9
329:15 330:1
331:12,21 336:7,19
yours
232:14
yourself
296:2
Your's
245:23
you'd
232:6 334:1
you'll
217:14 232:23,24
279:10
you're
221:23 222:15
226:15 232:12
234:1,1 235:10
246:18 253:22,22
256:7 264:17 265:8
265:9 270:22
292:18 294:10
302:10 307:11,14
311:21 314:18,18
317:1,24 325:7
327:4 332:13
you've
231:25 237:19,20
257:18 267:10
286:19,20 297:22
Z
zone
293:12
$
$18
233:22
$18.3
233:22 234...

Page 34
Page 34
294:3 332:14,24
15
292:3 293:23 294:3
332:14
16
258:18 292:3 293:16
293:22,24 294:3
314:13
16-year-old
293:23
17
258:18 292:3,4,5
314:13
18
258:18 292:16
294:10,10,12,20
295:15,25 318:1
19
241:15 314:10
1980s
241:24 242:5
1994
299:11
1999
233:22
2
2
300:4
20
294:19
20s
295:14 309:12
2000
258:18 302:16
308:11
2000s
243:9 244:3 245:18
246:2 247:12,22
266:25 271:13
275:3,5 299:12
307:4 308:5 311:21
314:4,10
2001
302:16 308:11
2002
222:14 233:14,15
234:4 247:17,18
2003
247:18 331:16
2007
230:19,24 231:7
233:12 234:5 235:9
319:5,6,9,13
2009
317:4
2010
235:25 237:1
2025
216:2 312:11
21
294:19
24
227:6
25
216:2 225:16
25th
217:4 285:20 337:4
3
3
300:5
30
236:8
4
4
300:5
40
236:7
5
5
299:12 300:5
50
225:16 236:8 334:11
6
6
300:5
63
227:10
67
227:10
7
71st
334:14
8
80s
242:3 244:2
9
9:24
217:4
90s
227:21 243:9 244:3
266:25 271:13,25
275:3 280:22
299:12 300:25
302:21 308:15
314:4 323:23 324:1
91
229:18 300:4
92
302:16
93
243:11 302:16
94
243:12
98
301:10
99
234:4 235:8 301:10
302:16

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